FIRE? Unless you hate or are bad at your job, isn't work the best part of life?

Terron

zagfles said:

chiefie said:

Pollycat said:

RogerIrvine said:

Tenure to a paying post seems to be an invaluable perk. For example septuagenarian Paul Dacre has recently demurred from re-applying 

for the prestigious chair of the kingdom's media regulator to be parachuted into a more lucrative private sector post. In his 80th year, great football manager Sir Alex Ferguson continues as Manchester United's Global Ambassador, after a stroke. 

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

Writing as someone who took early retirement 18 years ago, I much prefer to focus on the things that interest me - although I did enjoy my job, I enjoyed my hobbies much more.

Work was never the best part of my life.
Work enabled me to do the things I enjoyed.

Maybe we weren't as frugal as some people with FIRE goal, but we always lived within our means. But we lived well.
When work colleagues were holidaying in 5* AI resorts, we stayed in small hotels.
When colleagues were driving BMW or Audi, we had a Yaris.

Totally this ☝️  Who decided that 5 days/week work for 50+ years as the best way to exist ?  It's easy to fall into the trap of consumerism to enable other, very rich people, meet  their own needs.

it's time to get off the roundabout 

The people that do it decided it! I think the main thing is to get value from your spending, cut out expensive superficial fluff that doesn't really add much value and you could dramatically reduce your spending, resulting in achieving FI much earlier.

For instance just from recent threads here, some people spend £60 a month on their mobile phone! Does a £1000 mobile phone really give you 5 times the value of a £200 one? I very much doubt it. Does flying business class really give you 3 times the value of flying economy? Does a £60k car really give you 4 times the value of a £15k one? Does a £2000 bike give you 10 times the value of a £200 one? Does a £200 michelin star meal give you 20 times the value of a £10 curry? Does a £14k package holiday give you more value than 6 self planned/cheap package holidays for £10k total? Do you really need a new outfit for every social event you go to? Does a £10k Rolex tell time 200 times better than a £50 timex?

I think once you free yourself from the myth that "you get what you pay for" and actually look at how much cheaper it is to achieve what you want to do without the superficial fluff, or without worrying about what others think, or trying to impress or show off to others, then you're almost guaranteed to achieve FI at a reasonable age.

I think it's far more about attitude to spending than it is to how much you earn. I know several people who earn far more than me but who will never achieve FI until state pension age, maybe not even then, because of their addiction to excessive spending mostly on superficial fluff which they think they "need". And I also know someone younger who's already retired, never had a well paid job, but whose spending is low so their requirement in retirement is low, not through denying themselves, just through having interests that aren't expensive. (similar to Sea Shell here, see the squirrelled nuts thread)

They people who decided on 5 days a week about 100 years ago thought it was better than 5.5 and the people who decided on 5.5 about 150 years ago thought it was better than 6.

The best meal I ever had was a £100 Michelin starred one. Certainly 20 times better than any £10 one I have had recently, in that I still remember it. (It was my 60th birthday party.)

I am thinking about spending £15k on a holiday to watch the test series in the Caribbean next year. That will be about 3 times what I spent on going to see some tests in South Africa last year, which was about double my precious maximum. But I have already achieved FI and retired and have the money left over from selling a property last year. Before I injured my knee I used to enjoy going on an archaeological dig each summer - two weeks for about £200.

RogerIrvine

People are visiting Hungary or Romania for better dentistry at a fraction of the price, Terron.

Terron

RogerIrvine said:

People are visiting Hungary or Romania for better dentistry at a fraction of the price, Terron.

Eh? I didn't say anything about dentistry.

Ibrahim5

Terron said:

RogerIrvine said:

People are visiting Hungary or Romania for better dentistry at a fraction of the price, Terron.

Eh? I didn't say anything about dentistry.

Maybe it's something about your photo.

zagfles

Terron said:

zagfles said:

chiefie said:

Pollycat said:

RogerIrvine said:

Tenure to a paying post seems to be an invaluable perk. For example septuagenarian Paul Dacre has recently demurred from re-applying 

for the prestigious chair of the kingdom's media regulator to be parachuted into a more lucrative private sector post. In his 80th year, great football manager Sir Alex Ferguson continues as Manchester United's Global Ambassador, after a stroke. 

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

Writing as someone who took early retirement 18 years ago, I much prefer to focus on the things that interest me - although I did enjoy my job, I enjoyed my hobbies much more.

Work was never the best part of my life.
Work enabled me to do the things I enjoyed.

Maybe we weren't as frugal as some people with FIRE goal, but we always lived within our means. But we lived well.
When work colleagues were holidaying in 5* AI resorts, we stayed in small hotels.
When colleagues were driving BMW or Audi, we had a Yaris.

Totally this ☝️  Who decided that 5 days/week work for 50+ years as the best way to exist ?  It's easy to fall into the trap of consumerism to enable other, very rich people, meet  their own needs.

it's time to get off the roundabout 

The people that do it decided it! I think the main thing is to get value from your spending, cut out expensive superficial fluff that doesn't really add much value and you could dramatically reduce your spending, resulting in achieving FI much earlier.

For instance just from recent threads here, some people spend £60 a month on their mobile phone! Does a £1000 mobile phone really give you 5 times the value of a £200 one? I very much doubt it. Does flying business class really give you 3 times the value of flying economy? Does a £60k car really give you 4 times the value of a £15k one? Does a £2000 bike give you 10 times the value of a £200 one? Does a £200 michelin star meal give you 20 times the value of a £10 curry? Does a £14k package holiday give you more value than 6 self planned/cheap package holidays for £10k total? Do you really need a new outfit for every social event you go to? Does a £10k Rolex tell time 200 times better than a £50 timex?

I think once you free yourself from the myth that "you get what you pay for" and actually look at how much cheaper it is to achieve what you want to do without the superficial fluff, or without worrying about what others think, or trying to impress or show off to others, then you're almost guaranteed to achieve FI at a reasonable age.

I think it's far more about attitude to spending than it is to how much you earn. I know several people who earn far more than me but who will never achieve FI until state pension age, maybe not even then, because of their addiction to excessive spending mostly on superficial fluff which they think they "need". And I also know someone younger who's already retired, never had a well paid job, but whose spending is low so their requirement in retirement is low, not through denying themselves, just through having interests that aren't expensive. (similar to Sea Shell here, see the squirrelled nuts thread)

They people who decided on 5 days a week about 100 years ago thought it was better than 5.5 and the people who decided on 5.5 about 150 years ago thought it was better than 6.

The best meal I ever had was a £100 Michelin starred one. Certainly 20 times better than any £10 one I have had recently, in that I still remember it. (It was my 60th birthday party.)

I am thinking about spending £15k on a holiday to watch the test series in the Caribbean next year. That will be about 3 times what I spent on going to see some tests in South Africa last year, which was about double my precious maximum. But I have already achieved FI and retired and have the money left over from selling a property last year. Before I injured my knee I used to enjoy going on an archaeological dig each summer - two weeks for about £200.

In the old days people had to work 5.5 or 6 days a week just to survive. The point was that these days most people don't need to work "5 days/week for 50+ years", some people choose to because they constantly waste money on trivial fluff. An occasional expensive meal or holiday isn't likely to delay FI, even I've spent £100 on a meal, but doing it all the time with most stuff they buy almost certainly will.

Nebulous2

Terron said:

zagfles said:

chiefie said:

Pollycat said:

RogerIrvine said:

Tenure to a paying post seems to be an invaluable perk. For example septuagenarian Paul Dacre has recently demurred from re-applying 

for the prestigious chair of the kingdom's media regulator to be parachuted into a more lucrative private sector post. In his 80th year, great football manager Sir Alex Ferguson continues as Manchester United's Global Ambassador, after a stroke. 

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

Writing as someone who took early retirement 18 years ago, I much prefer to focus on the things that interest me - although I did enjoy my job, I enjoyed my hobbies much more.

Work was never the best part of my life.
Work enabled me to do the things I enjoyed.

Maybe we weren't as frugal as some people with FIRE goal, but we always lived within our means. But we lived well.
When work colleagues were holidaying in 5* AI resorts, we stayed in small hotels.
When colleagues were driving BMW or Audi, we had a Yaris.

Totally this ☝️  Who decided that 5 days/week work for 50+ years as the best way to exist ?  It's easy to fall into the trap of consumerism to enable other, very rich people, meet  their own needs.

it's time to get off the roundabout 

The people that do it decided it! I think the main thing is to get value from your spending, cut out expensive superficial fluff that doesn't really add much value and you could dramatically reduce your spending, resulting in achieving FI much earlier.

For instance just from recent threads here, some people spend £60 a month on their mobile phone! Does a £1000 mobile phone really give you 5 times the value of a £200 one? I very much doubt it. Does flying business class really give you 3 times the value of flying economy? Does a £60k car really give you 4 times the value of a £15k one? Does a £2000 bike give you 10 times the value of a £200 one? Does a £200 michelin star meal give you 20 times the value of a £10 curry? Does a £14k package holiday give you more value than 6 self planned/cheap package holidays for £10k total? Do you really need a new outfit for every social event you go to? Does a £10k Rolex tell time 200 times better than a £50 timex?

I think once you free yourself from the myth that "you get what you pay for" and actually look at how much cheaper it is to achieve what you want to do without the superficial fluff, or without worrying about what others think, or trying to impress or show off to others, then you're almost guaranteed to achieve FI at a reasonable age.

I think it's far more about attitude to spending than it is to how much you earn. I know several people who earn far more than me but who will never achieve FI until state pension age, maybe not even then, because of their addiction to excessive spending mostly on superficial fluff which they think they "need". And I also know someone younger who's already retired, never had a well paid job, but whose spending is low so their requirement in retirement is low, not through denying themselves, just through having interests that aren't expensive. (similar to Sea Shell here, see the squirrelled nuts thread)

They people who decided on 5 days a week about 100 years ago thought it was better than 5.5 and the people who decided on 5.5 about 150 years ago thought it was better than 6.

I listened to a radio programme on the development of hill walking / climbing in the 50s and 60s and people were still working on Saturday morning then. Finished work on Saturday morning, went home and changed, caught a bus to the Cairngorms in the afternoon, stayed overnight in a bothy, climbed a hill on Sunday, bus home again, off to bed then back to work on Monday. They described it very fondly, but it sounded pretty tiring to me. 

Nebulous2

Ibrahim5 said:

I've got a 1960s bike with a steel frame and Sturmey Archer 3 speed. If you pump the tyres up, true the wheels, grease the hubs it's amazing how fast they are. Need to stand up to pedal uphill. You wouldn't RACE with them but for normal commuter use the differences in speed from a modern bike are small and insignificant. The big difference comes with braking. Modern bikes are much better at stopping than older ones.

I have a late 70s, early 80s Motobecane with downtube shifters. It has wheels with chrome rims, tan wall tyres and the original brake pads. Braking isn't too bad in the dry, but is absolutely lethal in the wet. Despite the rims being dimpled to aid braking the pads simply don't hold at all. 

mgdavid

RogerIrvine said:

.........

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

Complete opposite. I call it a failure of imagination to think there is nothing you want to do more than work / be a wage slave / /salary servant / call it what you will. The saddest and least inspiring people I know are those who don't know what to do with themselves after retirement.

eastcorkram

mgdavid said:

RogerIrvine said:

.........

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

Complete opposite. I call it a failure of imagination to think there is nothing you want to do more than work / be a wage slave / /salary servant / call it what you will. The saddest and least inspiring people I know are those who don't know what to do with themselves after retirement.

That'll be me then 😃. I have no idea, and I'm already 62. It's not as though I love my job, it's just what I do. 

 Apart from doing some sort of voluntary work. Pretty much all of the usual things that people talk about doing when they retire , sound awful to me. I wouldn't be doing them even if I was getting paid to. Kind of sad, I know, and I've no idea how I've ended up like that, but it is genuine. 

CloesUnc

mgdavid said:

RogerIrvine said:

.........

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

Complete opposite. I call it a failure of imagination to think there is nothing you want to do more than work / be a wage slave / /salary servant / call it what you will. The saddest and least inspiring people I know are those who don't know what to do with themselves after retirement.

It's also quite possible that people become conditioned to "do what they are told to do". They need the comfort and guidance of having their time managed, and they think that as long as they do as they are told everything will be alright and their lives will tick along with order. It is safe and comfortable for someone else to organise their time.

They fear that once they are free of that guidance they become lost among a sea of possibilities and they will have no idea where to start orrganising their own time, or how to manage themselves.