Children 'helping' to pay with parent credit card

DB1904

pjcox2005 said:

Ignoring the crackers part, I'm surprised you think that children and husband using your card isn't against the rules of a personal credit card or legal.

I do pass mine to my wife occasionally when out, popping elsewhere etc. so appreciate the ease but quite clearly a sales person shouldn't take it. How can they possibly know you've given authority or permission when it's clearly not the card owner using it? Opens up to all sorts of fraud issues.

Plain and simple fraud without any issue. 

Manxman_in_exile

DB1904 said:

pjcox2005 said:

Ignoring the crackers part, I'm surprised you think that children and husband using your card isn't against the rules of a personal credit card or legal.

I do pass mine to my wife occasionally when out, popping elsewhere etc. so appreciate the ease but quite clearly a sales person shouldn't take it. How can they possibly know you've given authority or permission when it's clearly not the card owner using it? Opens up to all sorts of fraud issues.

Plain and simple fraud without any issue. 

Are you suggesting that pjcox2005 giving his wife permission to use his card is fraud "plain and simple"?  It may be against the card issuer's T&Cs, but where is the fraud?

Ergates

pjcox2005 said:

Ignoring the crackers part, I'm surprised you think that children and husband using your card isn't against the rules of a personal credit card or legal.

I do pass mine to my wife occasionally when out, popping elsewhere etc. so appreciate the ease but quite clearly a sales person shouldn't take it. How can they possibly know you've given authority or permission when it's clearly not the card owner using it? Opens up to all sorts of fraud issues.

In this case because the OP was *right there* next to the child in quesiton.

Ergates

I would argue that since you were physically present at the till and giving your explicit authority for the payment then your son wasn't the one "paying" in any meaningful sense of the word.  You're the one paying - you are taking possession of the goods, the money is coming from your account and you are present and giving your authority for the payment to take place.  Your son was just physically moving the payment token (card) on your behalf.

If you were at the supermarket and there was wine in the trolley and your son was pushing the trolley, I don't think anyone would argue that your son was buying alcohol.

It would have been a totally different matter if you'd sent your son into the shop, with your card, and instructions to buy the crackers, but that isn't what happened here.

RichardD1970

Ergates said:

I would argue that since you were physically present at the till and giving your explicit authority for the payment then your son wasn't the one "paying" in any meaningful sense of the word.  You're the one paying - you are taking possession of the goods, the money is coming from your account and you are present and giving your authority for the payment to take place.  Your son was just physically moving the payment token (card) on your behalf.

If you were at the supermarket and there was wine in the trolley and your son was pushing the trolley, I don't think anyone would argue that your son was buying alcohol.

It would have been a totally different matter if you'd sent your son into the shop, with your card, and instructions to buy the crackers, but that isn't what happened here.

Agree, but if the son then tried to pay for it (regardless of where the money came from), it could potentially open the server to disciplinary/legal action.  

pjcox2005

Ergates said:

pjcox2005 said:

Ignoring the crackers part, I'm surprised you think that children and husband using your card isn't against the rules of a personal credit card or legal.

I do pass mine to my wife occasionally when out, popping elsewhere etc. so appreciate the ease but quite clearly a sales person shouldn't take it. How can they possibly know you've given authority or permission when it's clearly not the card owner using it? Opens up to all sorts of fraud issues.

In this case because the OP was *right there* next to the child in quesiton.

I was referring to the OP stating “I literally let both of my children use my cards all the time - both when I'm physically present and not - and this has never been an issue.  Even my husband uses my card on occassion (he's always forgetting his!!)” rather than the cracker purchase.

HeinzVarieties

Ergates said:

I would argue that since you were physically present at the till and giving your explicit authority for the payment then your son wasn't the one "paying" in any meaningful sense of the word.  You're the one paying - you are taking possession of the goods, the money is coming from your account and you are present and giving your authority for the payment to take place.  Your son was just physically moving the payment token (card) on your behalf.

If you were at the supermarket and there was wine in the trolley and your son was pushing the trolley, I don't think anyone would argue that your son was buying alcohol.

It would have been a totally different matter if you'd sent your son into the shop, with your card, and instructions to buy the crackers, but that isn't what happened here.

Many people have been refused alcohol on similar grounds (although they typically ask for ID for the child) when attempting to purchase alcohol in supermarkets.

Ultimately, as the server is personally liable for any fine, it simply isn't worth trying to use common sense when selling age-restricted products nowadays.  And the shop doesn't want to take the chance of losing their license either (for alcohol anyway.)

City_Girl_3

Sandtree said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Amazingly you have to be 12 years old to buy Christmas Crackers:
https://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/business/trading_standards/business-support/age-restricted-products/age_restricted_product_advice.aspx

Well I never

They also fall under the banner of "explosives" if you try and travel with them... got my mother into trouble when she tried to take some abroad 

Yes, I once saw someone at the airport check-in urgently cracking all their crackers so that they could take them on board, otherwise the person at the desk wouldn't let them check in.  (When the associate said he couldn't sell them to my child, I did make the connection and didn't argue that point.)

City_Girl_3

So just to clarify - I am aware that it's illegal to sell crackers to a child, although honestly wasn't thinking about it when my son took my card to tap it on the reader as we had many things in the basket.  That's not the part I'm confused about.  (And I didn't argue about it, though I do think it's silly as it was clearly me buying the crackers and he was just playing shop)

It was when the colleague said she could refuse to sell me the crackers altogether because I 'admitted' to her that I was going to let my child tap my card for me.  That part baffled me.  I could understand perhaps if we were buying vodka and she had reason to believe I was paying for it so that he could drink it.  However in this case, he was tapping my card even though I was clearly the purchaser.  And of course, there's no rule saying children can't use christmas crackers, just that they can't buy them themselves.

user1977

It's probably much simpler just to have a blanket policy that they shouldn't be condoning anybody using somebody else's card, rather than try to come up with a list of exemptions.