Delay with buy limit on HL

AskAsk

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

May be I should look for a platform that will act on buy limit in a timely manner? 

Platforms don't offer full stock broking services. You'll need one telephone based with direct access to markets. 

it would appear that way.  i thought that the trading team have to pick up the buy limit and deal themselves, so when there is not enough staff around or they are too busy with lots of deals being placed, there is a delay.

but when i googled how buy limits are placed, it seems to state that they are automated so it would imply that HL system is slow to place the orders when the price is reached.

just wondering if this only applies to HL or whether this is standard on platforms.  i would have thought an automated system would be quite quick, like those ebay sniper tools that you can use for example, which is very fast.

Platforms will normally trade through Retail Service Providers. If the RSP's are unable to action the trade it will then get routed to HL's order handlers who'll then contact primary RSP's directly or for larger orders negotiate directly with market markers in the particular stock. That's why there's a time delay.  Far from being instanteous. 30 seconds can be a long time in the market when trading. 

Little different to a stop loss limit. If no one wants the trade. Then the market price can fall beneath the sell limit without the trade being actioned.  Markets require two parties to agree a trade. The price is only one factor in the equation. 

  if you do it yourself then it is instant but it sounds like the system goes trhough a different route if you ask it to action a buy or sell limit.

Why didn't you simply buy at spot price?  How long did you set the limit price for? 

i am not always around when the market is open so i put on buy and sell orders.  that is the whole point of these things.

the orders are often placed to last up to 90 days so they would could be sitting around on my account for days before they need to be actioned.

Thrugelmir

AskAsk said:

george4064 said:

george4064 said:

What was the stock? What was the buy limit order price? And when did this happen?

Not sure if you’re going to answer my questions, but I have a pretty strong feeling that if you drill down to the details it will come down to the computerised limit order system being a bit ‘dumb’ which is why your order wasn’t processed or was processed when it did vs when you expected it would be. Really comes down to people have high expectations for the limit order system which are disconnected from how they actually work.

Again, makes a big difference depending on how liquid the stock is, how volatile the stock price was on the day/time in question.

I think you’ll find that most platforms will have ‘slow’ or ‘bad’ limit order systems, but again can’t comment until you confirm the stock name, the limit price and when this occurred.

when i do it myself, it can come back to say there is not enough stock for sale or enough buyer to buy, and i have to do it again.  maybe this is where the problem is, that when the stock is moving quickly, the system encounters this and it takes much longer for the order to go through again than me doing it.

Any particular examples of a stock ?  Liquidity is often a lot less than people imagine at the retail level. Larger tranches of stock tend to get placed directly at a negotiated rather than live market price. 

AskAsk

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

george4064 said:

george4064 said:

What was the stock? What was the buy limit order price? And when did this happen?

Not sure if you’re going to answer my questions, but I have a pretty strong feeling that if you drill down to the details it will come down to the computerised limit order system being a bit ‘dumb’ which is why your order wasn’t processed or was processed when it did vs when you expected it would be. Really comes down to people have high expectations for the limit order system which are disconnected from how they actually work.

Again, makes a big difference depending on how liquid the stock is, how volatile the stock price was on the day/time in question.

I think you’ll find that most platforms will have ‘slow’ or ‘bad’ limit order systems, but again can’t comment until you confirm the stock name, the limit price and when this occurred.

when i do it myself, it can come back to say there is not enough stock for sale or enough buyer to buy, and i have to do it again.  maybe this is where the problem is, that when the stock is moving quickly, the system encounters this and it takes much longer for the order to go through again than me doing it.

Any particular examples of a stock ?  Liquidity is often a lot less than people imagine at the retail level. Larger tranches of stock tend to get placed directly at a negotiated rather than live market price. 

ishares FTSE 100 UCITS ETF.  this is a very liquid stock.  but as i have said, it has happened to other stocks.

i can buy and sell large volume fine normally, but every now and then i do come across the lack of stock and buyers but if i put in another order immediately, there will be stocks and buyers at the new price.

ANGLICANPAT

Dont know how long it takes for a trade  plan to start once placed , but I put one  on iweb today at c2..45pm   , ( when the price then on Impax environmental  , was 547 )  to buy if price dropped below  540 .   I just checked now and nothing  has been bought yet the price  dropped to 538 .    I  dont know if its because  the price wasnt under 540 during open hours, or if iweb  just didnt get round to it before it went up again.  

ANGLICANPAT

I can see now why -  by the time Id finished faffing to see how to do it properly ,  the price had already dropped and gone back up !!    Id like to know anyway for future info,   would a purchase only happen if price dropped before market close  ? (Is that 4pm or  4.30?)

Thrugelmir

AskAsk said:

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

george4064 said:

george4064 said:

What was the stock? What was the buy limit order price? And when did this happen?

Not sure if you’re going to answer my questions, but I have a pretty strong feeling that if you drill down to the details it will come down to the computerised limit order system being a bit ‘dumb’ which is why your order wasn’t processed or was processed when it did vs when you expected it would be. Really comes down to people have high expectations for the limit order system which are disconnected from how they actually work.

Again, makes a big difference depending on how liquid the stock is, how volatile the stock price was on the day/time in question.

I think you’ll find that most platforms will have ‘slow’ or ‘bad’ limit order systems, but again can’t comment until you confirm the stock name, the limit price and when this occurred.

when i do it myself, it can come back to say there is not enough stock for sale or enough buyer to buy, and i have to do it again.  maybe this is where the problem is, that when the stock is moving quickly, the system encounters this and it takes much longer for the order to go through again than me doing it.

Any particular examples of a stock ?  Liquidity is often a lot less than people imagine at the retail level. Larger tranches of stock tend to get placed directly at a negotiated rather than live market price. 

ishares FTSE 100 UCITS ETF.  this is a very liquid stock.  but as i have said, it has happened to other stocks.

i can buy and sell large volume fine normally, but every now and then i do come across the lack of stock and buyers but if i put in another order immediately, there will be stocks and buyers at the new price.

I'm unsure what you are basing that assertion on.  Just looked up ISFU. Up until yesterday in the past 30 trading sessions only once has the daily number of trades exceed 29. That was on the 2nd November when there were 82. Only 6 days have there been 20 or above. A normal day will be 10 or less trades. 

In November there were 308 trades - £15.48 m value. That's an average trade of  £50,259. Suggests very little retail activity. 

Many people opt for ETF's as they are cheaper than funds. Without realising that ETF's aren't as liquid. There's no fund manager to buy/sell through. Very much exposed to the whims of the market. Investment banks don't create new shares  or liquidate existing shares for small transactions in the same way that fund managers do. . 

wmb194

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

george4064 said:

george4064 said:

What was the stock? What was the buy limit order price? And when did this happen?

Not sure if you’re going to answer my questions, but I have a pretty strong feeling that if you drill down to the details it will come down to the computerised limit order system being a bit ‘dumb’ which is why your order wasn’t processed or was processed when it did vs when you expected it would be. Really comes down to people have high expectations for the limit order system which are disconnected from how they actually work.

Again, makes a big difference depending on how liquid the stock is, how volatile the stock price was on the day/time in question.

I think you’ll find that most platforms will have ‘slow’ or ‘bad’ limit order systems, but again can’t comment until you confirm the stock name, the limit price and when this occurred.

when i do it myself, it can come back to say there is not enough stock for sale or enough buyer to buy, and i have to do it again.  maybe this is where the problem is, that when the stock is moving quickly, the system encounters this and it takes much longer for the order to go through again than me doing it.

Any particular examples of a stock ?  Liquidity is often a lot less than people imagine at the retail level. Larger tranches of stock tend to get placed directly at a negotiated rather than live market price. 

ishares FTSE 100 UCITS ETF.  this is a very liquid stock.  but as i have said, it has happened to other stocks.

i can buy and sell large volume fine normally, but every now and then i do come across the lack of stock and buyers but if i put in another order immediately, there will be stocks and buyers at the new price.

I'm unsure what you are basing that assertion on.  Just looked up ISFU. Up until yesterday in the past 30 trading sessions only once has the daily number of trades exceed 29. That was on the 2nd November when there were 82. Only 6 days have there been 20 or above. A normal day will be 10 or less trades. 

In November there were 308 trades - £15.48 m value. That's an average trade of  £50,259. Suggests very little retail activity. 

Many people opt for ETF's as they are cheaper than funds. Without realising that ETF's aren't as liquid. There's no fund manager to buy/sell through. Very much exposed to the whims of the market. Investment banks don't create new shares  or liquidate existing shares for small transactions in the same way that fund managers do. . 

ISFU is USD denominated so I'm guessing you've looked at the wrong version.  I presume the OP is referring to ISF.

AskAsk

ANGLICANPAT said:

I can see now why -  by the time Id finished faffing to see how to do it properly ,  the price had already dropped and gone back up !!    Id like to know anyway for future info,   would a purchase only happen if price dropped before market close  ? (Is that 4pm or  4.30?)

they only carry out trades during market hours, so it has before the market closes at 4.30pm

AskAsk

wmb194 said:

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

george4064 said:

george4064 said:

What was the stock? What was the buy limit order price? And when did this happen?

Not sure if you’re going to answer my questions, but I have a pretty strong feeling that if you drill down to the details it will come down to the computerised limit order system being a bit ‘dumb’ which is why your order wasn’t processed or was processed when it did vs when you expected it would be. Really comes down to people have high expectations for the limit order system which are disconnected from how they actually work.

Again, makes a big difference depending on how liquid the stock is, how volatile the stock price was on the day/time in question.

I think you’ll find that most platforms will have ‘slow’ or ‘bad’ limit order systems, but again can’t comment until you confirm the stock name, the limit price and when this occurred.

when i do it myself, it can come back to say there is not enough stock for sale or enough buyer to buy, and i have to do it again.  maybe this is where the problem is, that when the stock is moving quickly, the system encounters this and it takes much longer for the order to go through again than me doing it.

Any particular examples of a stock ?  Liquidity is often a lot less than people imagine at the retail level. Larger tranches of stock tend to get placed directly at a negotiated rather than live market price. 

ishares FTSE 100 UCITS ETF.  this is a very liquid stock.  but as i have said, it has happened to other stocks.

i can buy and sell large volume fine normally, but every now and then i do come across the lack of stock and buyers but if i put in another order immediately, there will be stocks and buyers at the new price.

I'm unsure what you are basing that assertion on.  Just looked up ISFU. Up until yesterday in the past 30 trading sessions only once has the daily number of trades exceed 29. That was on the 2nd November when there were 82. Only 6 days have there been 20 or above. A normal day will be 10 or less trades. 

In November there were 308 trades - £15.48 m value. That's an average trade of  £50,259. Suggests very little retail activity. 

Many people opt for ETF's as they are cheaper than funds. Without realising that ETF's aren't as liquid. There's no fund manager to buy/sell through. Very much exposed to the whims of the market. Investment banks don't create new shares  or liquidate existing shares for small transactions in the same way that fund managers do. . 

ISFU is USD denominated so I'm guessing you've looked at the wrong version.  I presume the OP is referring to ISF.

yes, ISF, it is the FTSE 100 and is easily tradeable.  never really had much problems with it, except on the occasions already mentioned but if i do another trade straightaway the problem goes away.

it is to do with the units for sale and wanted at a particular price.

AskAsk

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

Thrugelmir said:

AskAsk said:

george4064 said:

george4064 said:

What was the stock? What was the buy limit order price? And when did this happen?

Not sure if you’re going to answer my questions, but I have a pretty strong feeling that if you drill down to the details it will come down to the computerised limit order system being a bit ‘dumb’ which is why your order wasn’t processed or was processed when it did vs when you expected it would be. Really comes down to people have high expectations for the limit order system which are disconnected from how they actually work.

Again, makes a big difference depending on how liquid the stock is, how volatile the stock price was on the day/time in question.

I think you’ll find that most platforms will have ‘slow’ or ‘bad’ limit order systems, but again can’t comment until you confirm the stock name, the limit price and when this occurred.

when i do it myself, it can come back to say there is not enough stock for sale or enough buyer to buy, and i have to do it again.  maybe this is where the problem is, that when the stock is moving quickly, the system encounters this and it takes much longer for the order to go through again than me doing it.

Any particular examples of a stock ?  Liquidity is often a lot less than people imagine at the retail level. Larger tranches of stock tend to get placed directly at a negotiated rather than live market price. 

ishares FTSE 100 UCITS ETF.  this is a very liquid stock.  but as i have said, it has happened to other stocks.

i can buy and sell large volume fine normally, but every now and then i do come across the lack of stock and buyers but if i put in another order immediately, there will be stocks and buyers at the new price.

I'm unsure what you are basing that assertion on.  Just looked up ISFU. Up until yesterday in the past 30 trading sessions only once has the daily number of trades exceed 29. That was on the 2nd November when there were 82. Only 6 days have there been 20 or above. A normal day will be 10 or less trades. 

In November there were 308 trades - £15.48 m value. That's an average trade of  £50,259. Suggests very little retail activity. 

Many people opt for ETF's as they are cheaper than funds. Without realising that ETF's aren't as liquid. There's no fund manager to buy/sell through. Very much exposed to the whims of the market. Investment banks don't create new shares  or liquidate existing shares for small transactions in the same way that fund managers do. . 

as i had mentioned to another post, it is ISF and not ISFU.  i invest in ETF because it is liquid and you can trade very quickly on it.

i had invested in funds before but it takes a day for the funds to be sold so you could never get the spot price.  they use the price at midday if you trade before 11am, else it goes to the next day.  with ETF, you get the immediate price, just like a share but you don't have to pay stamp duty.