Help Advice against CEL

noddy78

I'm looking for some help and guidance please guys. So our situation us we have just received a County Court claim form from Civil Enforcement Ltd to the tune of near £900. 

This is in respect of 4 PCN's dating back to 2019. My partner overstayed the 2 hour limit in a local Costco car park 4 times over a number of months but we never received the original fine notifications due to a mix up with DVLA not updating our new address. 

When we started receiving letters from debt collection agencies we did contact CEL and requested evidence. As I recall they did sent some documents of ANPR cameras recording entry and exit of the car park back in late 2019. But then when COVID hit we heard nothing further until a couple of months ago when we started receiving letters chasing for payment again. Unfortunately my partner ignored these letters and we are now at this point with a county claim letter. 

I know there is a newbie post on here but to be honest I don't know where to start. Given the facts can we defend against this claim and if so on what grounds? 

I am aware from reading other posts that a lot of these cases end up with civil enforcement not attending court and the case is dropped however with this being a substantial amount I feel they will think it is worth their while to turn up.  

If we do defend and the case goes against us could this £900 be increased further. 

Or should we just bite the bullet and pay them to close this out?  These are the questions I am asking myself. 

Any guidance on how best to approach this would be greatly appreciated. 

Redx

Tell us the issue date from the CCBC claim form for starters !!

Whose name is on the claim ? Yours ? Or your partner's ? , We need clarity
Are you the registered keeper ? Or your partner ?

Email a SAR to the DPO at CEL attaching a copy of the claim form and also attaching 2 recent redacted copies of 2 recent utility bills as proof of I D under the GDPR law to obtain all your data

Do not do the AOS online until a minimum of 5 days after the issue date from the claim form , so day 6 to day 19

The newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum in announcements , fifth & second post has most information you need , plus you will be using the defence template post by coupon mad to formulate your defence as keeper who wasn't the driver !

Grounds for a defence are

Keeper defendant not liable , not the driver ( if you are the defendant ? )
POFA 2012 ( non compliance ? , Either they did , or didn't , comply )
No landowner authority
The BPA CoP in force at the time of the incidents
Double recovery charges added on ( to be struck out if you lose in court )
Poor and inadequate signage ( sometimes unlit if at night )
The CRA 2015

Etc

Like this one. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6316740/parking-fine-from-civil-enforcement#latest

So , issue date. ?  , AOS online after 5 days , email a SAR , complain by email to the landowner or the managing agent , start drafting paragraphs 2 and 3 only , the post only your homework paragraphs below

Do not post the rest of the template defence !! We are checking only your homework , what you write ( the rest of the template defence is unchanged )

No way would I pay £900 for 4 PCNs at £100 a pop , plus say £150 in legal fees and court costs , maybe £600 maximum , even if you lost in court , once the spurious charges are removed

If the claim is in your partner's name , they must follow the advice , they do everything , not you , you are just helping them , like us , advisors only , they do the contacting , signing , the legal stuff ( you would be their own P A ). Nothing would be done in your name , because your name wouldn't be on the legal papers or emails )

D_P_Dance

 we have just received a County Court claim form from Civil Enforcement Ltd to the tune of near £900. 

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amounts for debt collection. This amounts to double recovery and some Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

However, a VCS appealed this so it may not apply in all cases, read this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntksx9g7177ahyg/VCS v Percy v1 Amendments (2).pdf?dl=0Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Fruitcake

The keeper/defendant should also send a rectification notice to the DPO of CEL instructing them to erase their personal data and replace it with their current address for service.
Make sure the word I underlined is used.

Coupon-mad

If you lose you'd pay far less than £900.  That sum is hugely inflated.  

I expect by now you've had a chance to calm down - this is easy enough to defend.

See Newbies thread 2nd post and the template defence thread.  We only ask a D to write ONE paragraph.  The rest is written for you.

We need to know the issue date of the claim.

noddy78

Redx said:

Tell us the issue date from the CCBC claim form for starters !!

Whose name is on the claim ? Yours ? Or your partner's ? , We need clarity
Are you the registered keeper ? Or your partner ?

Email a SAR to the DPO at CEL attaching a copy of the claim form and also attaching 2 recent redacted copies of 2 recent utility bills as proof of I D under the GDPR law to obtain all your data

Do not do the AOS online until a minimum of 5 days after the issue date from the claim form , so day 6 to day 19

The newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum in announcements , fifth & second post has most information you need , plus you will be using the defence template post by coupon mad to formulate your defence as keeper who wasn't the driver !

Grounds for a defence are

Keeper defendant not liable , not the driver ( if you are the defendant ? )
POFA 2012 ( non compliance ? , Either they did , or didn't , comply )
No landowner authority
The BPA CoP in force at the time of the incidents
Double recovery charges added on ( to be struck out if you lose in court )
Poor and inadequate signage ( sometimes unlit if at night )
The CRA 2015

Etc

Like this one. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6316740/parking-fine-from-civil-enforcement#latest

So , issue date. ?  , AOS online after 5 days , email a SAR , complain by email to the landowner or the managing agent , start drafting paragraphs 2 and 3 only , the post only your homework paragraphs below

Do not post the rest of the template defence !! We are checking only your homework , what you write ( the rest of the template defence is unchanged )

No way would I pay £900 for 4 PCNs at £100 a pop , plus say £150 in legal fees and court costs , maybe £600 maximum , even if you lost in court , once the spurious charges are removed

If the claim is in your partner's name , they must follow the advice , they do everything , not you , you are just helping them , like us , advisors only , they do the contacting , signing , the legal stuff ( you would be their own P A ). Nothing would be done in your name , because your name wouldn't be on the legal papers or emails )

Thanks for your response and all the info.

Sorry so the issue date for claim was 19th November and it is in my partners name. She was the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time. 

Ok how do I find an email request for the DPO @ CEL looking on their website they provide very little in terms of contact details. And what would be gained from the SAR request? 

Sorry what is the AOS? 

Yes I am just looking to help my partner I know all contact has to be in her name. 

noddy78

Fruitcake said:

The keeper/defendant should also send a rectification notice to the DPO of CEL instructing them to erase their personal data and replace it with their current address for service.
Make sure the word I underlined is used.

Ok, what would be the purpose of doing this? 

KeithP

noddy78 said:

Redx said:

Tell us the issue date from the CCBC claim form for starters !!

Whose name is on the claim ? Yours ? Or your partner's ? , We need clarity
Are you the registered keeper ? Or your partner ?

Email a SAR to the DPO at CEL attaching a copy of the claim form and also attaching 2 recent redacted copies of 2 recent utility bills as proof of I D under the GDPR law to obtain all your data

Do not do the AOS online until a minimum of 5 days after the issue date from the claim form , so day 6 to day 19

The newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum in announcements , fifth & second post has most information you need , plus you will be using the defence template post by coupon mad to formulate your defence as keeper who wasn't the driver !

Grounds for a defence are

Keeper defendant not liable , not the driver ( if you are the defendant ? )
POFA 2012 ( non compliance ? , Either they did , or didn't , comply )
No landowner authority
The BPA CoP in force at the time of the incidents
Double recovery charges added on ( to be struck out if you lose in court )
Poor and inadequate signage ( sometimes unlit if at night )
The CRA 2015

Etc

Like this one. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6316740/parking-fine-from-civil-enforcement#latest

So , issue date. ?  , AOS online after 5 days , email a SAR , complain by email to the landowner or the managing agent , start drafting paragraphs 2 and 3 only , the post only your homework paragraphs below

Do not post the rest of the template defence !! We are checking only your homework , what you write ( the rest of the template defence is unchanged )

No way would I pay £900 for 4 PCNs at £100 a pop , plus say £150 in legal fees and court costs , maybe £600 maximum , even if you lost in court , once the spurious charges are removed

If the claim is in your partner's name , they must follow the advice , they do everything , not you , you are just helping them , like us , advisors only , they do the contacting , signing , the legal stuff ( you would be their own P A ). Nothing would be done in your name , because your name wouldn't be on the legal papers or emails )

Sorry so the issue date for claim was 19th November and it is in my partners name.

Sorry what is the AOS? 

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th November, you have until Wednesday 8th December to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 22nd December 2021 to file your Defence.

That's nearly weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Of course everywhere I have written 'you' or 'your' I mean the named Defendant.

noddy78 said:

Redx said:

Tell us the issue date from the CCBC claim form for starters !!

Whose name is on the claim ? Yours ? Or your partner's ? , We need clarity
Are you the registered keeper ? Or your partner ?

Email a SAR to the DPO at CEL attaching a copy of the claim form and also attaching 2 recent redacted copies of 2 recent utility bills as proof of I D under the GDPR law to obtain all your data

Do not do the AOS online until a minimum of 5 days after the issue date from the claim form , so day 6 to day 19

The newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum in announcements , fifth & second post has most information you need , plus you will be using the defence template post by coupon mad to formulate your defence as keeper who wasn't the driver !

Grounds for a defence are

Keeper defendant not liable , not the driver ( if you are the defendant ? )
POFA 2012 ( non compliance ? , Either they did , or didn't , comply )
No landowner authority
The BPA CoP in force at the time of the incidents
Double recovery charges added on ( to be struck out if you lose in court )
Poor and inadequate signage ( sometimes unlit if at night )
The CRA 2015

Etc

Like this one. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6316740/parking-fine-from-civil-enforcement#latest

So , issue date. ?  , AOS online after 5 days , email a SAR , complain by email to the landowner or the managing agent , start drafting paragraphs 2 and 3 only , the post only your homework paragraphs below

Do not post the rest of the template defence !! We are checking only your homework , what you write ( the rest of the template defence is unchanged )

No way would I pay £900 for 4 PCNs at £100 a pop , plus say £150 in legal fees and court costs , maybe £600 maximum , even if you lost in court , once the spurious charges are removed

If the claim is in your partner's name , they must follow the advice , they do everything , not you , you are just helping them , like us , advisors only , they do the contacting , signing , the legal stuff ( you would be their own P A ). Nothing would be done in your name , because your name wouldn't be on the legal papers or emails )

Ok how do I find an email request for the DPO @ CEL looking on their website they provide very little in terms of contact details. And what would be gained from the SAR request?  

When looking at CEL's website, look specifically at their Privacy Policy where you will find the email address of their Data Protection Officer.

The purpose of a Subject Access Request is to find out what the Claimant knows about the 'Subject' - your partner.
The SAR must be sent in your partner's name. The second post of the NEWBIES thread tells you how to send a SAR.

Coupon-mad

noddy78 said:

Fruitcake said:

The keeper/defendant should also send a rectification notice to the DPO of CEL instructing them to erase their personal data and replace it with their current address for service.
Make sure the word I underlined is used.

Ok, what would be the purpose of doing this? 

To avoid a secret CCJ...why would you want a PPC to have 2 possible addresses for a claim?

Redx

The fifth post in the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum in announcements explains the acronyms ! Including AOS !

The privacy page of any company gives you the DPO contact details

Everything is done by your partner or in her name , YOU do nothing , apart from the research and assisting her.

Only one address is currently valid. , Hence why she tells the claimant DPO to rectify the address and erase the old one , to avoid getting a default CCJ in her name due to their error , should they use the old address.  Too many people have been a victim to this sc#m of old addresses , so why prolong the confusion ? One email corrects it under data protection laws !!  Foolish not to do it !  😜😜

Le_Kirk

noddy78 said:

Ok how do I find an email request for the DPO @ CEL looking on their website they provide very little in terms of contact details. And what would be gained from the SAR request? 

Sorry what is the AOS? 

These have proved useful for CEL in the past: -

office@ce-service.co.uk

Legal3@ce-service.co.uk

dataprotectionofficer@ce-service.co.uk

but I also found this on their privacy page: -
dataprotectionofficer@ce-service.co.uk

The SAR (Subject Access Request) is to find out "everything they have on you" i.e. all the data about you, your vehicle and the parking issue.

AoS = Acknowledgment of Service