P2P ALBRATE

Jollyroger1959

SMALL INVESTORS SHOULD STEER WELL CLEAR OF HIGH RISK LOANS YOU WILL LOSE MORE THAN YOU WILL  GAIN IN THE LONG RUN
On the web site on the loan exchange section Look at the paused loans  ie shaded in grey then put those borrowing company names into the  companies House web site ( such as Startermode ltd Burningnight Beermonkeybrew  TrickswItch ltd ect ) then click on the people/ directors tab you will see the same names cropping up time and time again with a list of failed companies behind them going back over many years  that have gone into administration  leaving various creditors  and investors unpaid 
WHY THEN DID ABLRATE RECOMENDED  PEOPLE INVEST  IN  THEESE   COMPANIES IN THE FIRST PLACE  ?  GIVEN THE TRACK RECORD OF THEESE FAILED  DIRECTORS ??

eskbanker

WE HEARD YOU THE FIRST TIME!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6316240/ablrate-loans-beware

k12479

Jollyroger1959 said:

 WHY THEN DID ABLRATE RECOMENDED  PEOPLE INVEST  IN  THEESE   COMPANIES IN THE FIRST PLACE  ?  

Recommended? Or just offered?

masonic

In case you hadn't noticed, we're in the middle of a global pandemic. Not exactly a great time for companies running and leasing bars and restaurants like the ones you mention. From what I've seen Ablrate has worked very hard to restructure various loans and work with borrowers to secure repayments for lenders, those efforts stood a good chance of coming good before the pandemic struck, and hopefully things will start to turn around as pubs are relaunched and generating an income again.

If you are an investor in these loans then you'll have read the borrowing proposal and other documents where the connections between them were disclosed, and the risks were discussed. Borrowers who take out secured loans with interest rates of 12+% are clearly subprime, so it is only natural that a certain number will default on their repayments.

I'm a lender in one of these loans, which led me to avoid putting money into the others because of the disclosed borrower connections. Despite this, and a couple of other hiccups at Ablrate, I've made reasonable returns from lending there. I'm not currently investing in P2P (beyond what money I have in non-performing loans) as I don't think the risk-reward balance makes sense at the moment and in my view there are more attractive options for gaining exposure to asset-backed lending. I was only ever a small investor (max 2% of my net assets at Ablrate), and I don't think I am an exceptional case in making positive returns despite suffering a few defaults. Having some loans go bad is the nature of the beast at these interest rates.

Thrugelmir

Jollyroger1959 said:

WHY THEN DID ABLRATE RECOMENDED  PEOPLE INVEST  IN  THEESE   COMPANIES IN THE FIRST PLACE  ?  GIVEN THE TRACK RECORD OF THEESE FAILED  DIRECTORS ??

Do your own research and due diligence. There's no hand holding when it comes to P2P lending. Risk is priced for good reason. No free lunches. 

maxsteam

Jollyroger1959 said:

WHY THEN DID ABLRATE RECOMENDED  PEOPLE INVEST  IN  THEESE   COMPANIES IN THE FIRST PLACE  ?

I am unsure if this is serious question or just a wish to highlight the problem. The answer is that Ablrate are involved in the p2p game. 

Aceace

An excellent and balanced response from @masonic above. 

I've been lending through ABLrate for 3.5 years. Throughout that time I've achieved an XIRR of 11.2% after accounting for losses. That's a total profit of 45% in 3.5 years.

Platform stats show that an investment spread equally over all loans on the platform since 2016 would have returned 72% profit after losses (an XIRR of 10.4%).

Yes, ABLrate is a high risk / high reward platform. And yes, there are many interrelated loans, which needs to be taken into account. DD and diversification is essential on platforms like this, but good risk adjusted returns are available for experienced investors. 

maxsteam

Aceace said:

And yes, there are many interrelated loans, which needs to be taken into account. DD and diversification is essential on platforms like this, but good risk adjusted returns are available for experienced investors. 

I am sorry but "interrelated loans" is not just something that should be taken into account. If the people making the decisions are lending customers' money to themselves then not repaying it, then the matter is far more serious than something "which needs to be taken into account" and the losses should not be blamed on the virus, investor inexperience or due diligence failures.

Aceace

maxsteam said:

Aceace said:

And yes, there are many interrelated loans, which needs to be taken into account. DD and diversification is essential on platforms like this, but good risk adjusted returns are available for experienced investors. 

I am sorry but "interrelated loans" is not just something that should be taken into account. If the people making the decisions are lending customers' money to themselves then not repaying it, then the matter is far more serious than something "which needs to be taken into account" and the losses should not be blamed on the virus, investor inexperience or due diligence failures.

I'm not sure which loans you're referring to here where "people making the decisions are lending customers' money to themselves then not repaying it", but if it's the series of loans that I'm involved in that got into difficulties... I believe that most other platforms would have simply walked away, leaving investors with substantial losses. ABLrate didn't do that. They restructured the loan in such a way that gave lenders the best possible hope of an eventual full recovery of capital and interest. This involved bringing a company out of administration and for ABLrate to take a stake in the company and to sit on the board in order to supervise the borrowing entity's activities. This was starting to work when it was thrown off course by Covid19 amongst other issues. I don't know what the eventual outcome from these loans will be, but I strongly believe that ABLrate will make every possible effort to return my funds.

These are high risk loans, so some losses should be expected and allowed for. Overall I'm very happy with my platform returns and ABLrate's efforts to achieve the best possible outcome for lenders.

My apologies if your comment relates to some other loans that I'm not involved with. 

masonic

maxsteam said:

Aceace said:

And yes, there are many interrelated loans, which needs to be taken into account. DD and diversification is essential on platforms like this, but good risk adjusted returns are available for experienced investors. 

I am sorry but "interrelated loans" is not just something that should be taken into account. If the people making the decisions are lending customers' money to themselves then not repaying it, then the matter is far more serious than something "which needs to be taken into account" and the losses should not be blamed on the virus, investor inexperience or due diligence failures.

Interrelated loans means loans where the borrowers are connected to one another, not loans where the platform is connected to the borrower. There have certainly been examples of platforms having undisclosed connections with borrowers when raising capital from lenders, but those involve platforms that have already gone bust.

Malthusian

maxsteam said:

Aceace said:

And yes, there are many interrelated loans, which needs to be taken into account. DD and diversification is essential on platforms like this, but good risk adjusted returns are available for experienced investors. 

I am sorry but "interrelated loans" is not just something that should be taken into account. If the people making the decisions are lending customers' money to themselves then not repaying it, then the matter is far more serious than something "which needs to be taken into account" and the losses should not be blamed on the virus, investor inexperience or due diligence failures.

P2P is marketed at people who think that "due diligence" means reading the loan prospectus. Maybe looking at the borrower's website for a "deep dive".

Lendy collapsed years ago, it is far too late for anyone to claim that they didn't realise individual commercial loans to random property developers and holiday parks nobody has ever heard of at 12% per year could lose all their money.

If some dude goes on Ablrate asking for money under the name of "Bloggs Holiday Parks Limited" and then again under the name of "Bridgwater Adventure Experiences Limited" and it's fully disclosed that the same person is behind both companies, but the investors don't realise and think they're diversifying by lending to both, or don't bother to look at their track record of failed companies, I can see why that leaves a sour taste in the mouth. But on the other hand, it's P2P.