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Horizon PCN - Changed wording on letter?

BizzyBeez
BizzyBeez Posts: 10 Forumite
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edited 1 December 2021 at 3:54PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hi

I have a similar situation to the one in this thread at the same location Parking charge notice (PCN), Horizon, Iceland Chester - store closed and fine still issued! — MoneySavingExpert Forum-

I have received the attached (as vehicle keeper). I was stopped in the same car park for approx. 30 mins (approx. 9pm) and never left the vehicle due to collecting someone from work, with my intention of doing some shopping whilst I waited before realising the store was closed so I ended up just sitting and waiting, and wrongly assumed parking would be free as the store was closed, so no way to get validation of stay nor pay. Camera stills show the vehicle entering and leaving but not the driver as it was dark.

I have noted however that the wording on my PCN is different to the one on the above thread notably the last paragraph which now references POFA and keeper liability - am I able to contest this on the basis of driver not identifiable, nor were able to pay?? 

Thanks in advance

Biz




«1

Comments

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,010 Forumite
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    That doesn't contain the prescribed wording of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) para 9.

    Can we also see a redacted copy of the front of the letter - please leave all dates showing. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 149,525 Forumite
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    The vague phrase ''full payment or driver details'' as well as ''if after 28 days'' (which is wrong and unclear when the time starts) has been held by POPLA not to be POFA compliant before.  Premier Park used to use that sentence and lost quite a few POPLA appeals about it.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 149,525 Forumite
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    edited 30 November 2021 at 5:17PM
    I have received the attached over the weekend (as vehicle keeper). I was stopped in the same car park for approx. 30 mins (approx. 9pm) and never left the vehicle due to collecting someone from work, with my intention of doing some shopping whilst I waited before realising the store was closed so I ended up just sitting and waiting, and wrongly assumed parking would be free as the store was closed, so no way to get validation of stay nor pay. Camera stills show the vehicle entering and leaving but not the driver as it was dark.
    Not a great move. 

    Advice for next time:  Park on a side road.  I have no idea why people wait anywhere except on street.  You had no reason to drive into nor even look for a car park.  I never use a private car park at night.  Any street would do, even a double yellow as long as not causing any obstruction, is OK to board passengers.  Perfectly legal, that's what double yellows are for.

    https://goo.gl/maps/NrXuu9k43kmeaJ3Q8

    The pedestrian zone is only applicable until 4.30pm so that's the sort of street to park in, no PCN risk. 

    Interesting to see that image also shows the Iceland car park has no Entrance sign from Horizon.  A specific breach of the 'mandatory entrance signs' requirements of the BPA CoP.  Use it for POPLA stage but no implying who parked.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • BizzyBeez
    BizzyBeez Posts: 10 Forumite
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    edited 30 November 2021 at 5:51PM
    Umkomaas said:
    That doesn't contain the prescribed wording of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) para 9.


    Does this mean I should submit an appeal on the grounds of POFA with non-driver disclosure? (Blue section newbies thread?)
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,010 Forumite
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    BizzyBeez said:
    Umkomaas said:
    That doesn't contain the prescribed wording of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) para 9.


    Does this mean I should submit an appeal on the grounds of POFA with non-driver disclosure?
    Let's see the front page of the NtK to check out the dates first. They may help you firmly nail this. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 149,525 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 1 December 2021 at 4:46PM
    BizzyBeez said:
    Umkomaas said:
    That doesn't contain the prescribed wording of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) para 9.


    Does this mean I should submit an appeal on the grounds of POFA with non-driver disclosure? (Blue section newbies thread?)
    I already made that clear.  Yes, that will be one of your points for POPLA.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Umkomaas said:
    Let's see the front page of the NtK to check out the dates first. They may help you firmly nail this. 

    PCN Date - 19th Nov
    Parking Charge Details - Issue Date - 26th Nov
    Received in Post - 30th Nov
  • Fruitcake said:
    Okay, so the NTK failed PoFA on wording but not dates.

    Send the appeal template in blue text from the NEWBIES, and add a one liner that the NTK does not contain the mandatory PoFA wording therefore the keeper cannot be held liable.

    Thank you - much appreciated. Will update here how it goes.....

    Out interest, what should the mandatory wording say, as opposed to what I received?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 149,525 Forumite
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    The NEWBIES thread already links to the Pofa schedule 4 'for those who want to dig deeper' and understand keeper liability.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,586 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    You need to take this seriouly and put in the hours, these companies ruin lives. Watch this

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p067bmlh
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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