ParkingEye, Failed POPLA and recieved LBCCC

Deadly86

Hi All,

I have read the Newbies thread and am slightly confused by my next course of action. There is so much information on there which is great but becomes a minefield when looking for certain things. I am hoping someone will be able to help.

I received a PCN from ParkingEye which I felt was unjust and quickly appealed. Very naively i thought I could appeal on almost a point of principle and it failed. I went to POPLA and lost there as well. Frustratingly I only looked for and found this forum after the POPLA appeal had failed as i thought (again naively) that common sense would overcome. Had i looked here 1st I’m sure it would have been dealt with by now. Lesson Learned!!

I got a ticket for being in an ANPR area for 9 minutes without entering details on a keypad internally. The area is a residential block in a town centre location with an underground car park. I did not go into the car park but stayed in a layby / drop off area outside the main entrance to the flats whilst waiting for a resident. It turns out the ANPR cameras are on the entrance and exit ramps to the apartments rather than the entrance to the car park. They are classing the entire area as a car park.

I have now received an LBCCC. I have contacted the landowner as suggested in the threads but my understanding is that shortly after my fine was issued the landowner got rid of ParkingEye and instructed a new operator to manage the parking so I am not sure what influence they will have anymore. A member of the landowners team mentioned that it could have been because of complaints & poor signage that ParkingEye were removed but could not confirm.

In the NEWBIES thread it mentions about getting a SAR if missing information but as part of the POPLA appeal an awful lot of information was provided such as photos of the car, layouts of the signs, photos of the signs that were in place. I used the photos provided and the fact they are not reasonably placed in conjunction with my journey in and out of the vicinity of the building in my defence at POPLA but it was unsuccessful. Should i still go through the process to request a SAR and what will it give me that i don’t already have? If i email the litigation team to try and resolve it, how do I word it? I would like to think a judge would throw it out and show some common sense, but I just don’t know how the law stands.

Please don’t have a go at me for not coming here sooner, I am angry enough at myself for that already.

Any help is hugely appreciated.

Coupon-mad

Reply to the LBCCC by email, asking ParkingEye for a site map of the enforcement area because you wish to narrow the issues and their map at POPLA stage was inconclusive as to the 'car park' that they were authorised to monitor, that they have since lost the contract for due to complaints about over-zealous ticketing, like this one. 

Say it is your case that you were outside the car park enforcement area and that their camera was capturing vehicles that never entered the car park nor had an opportunity to read the terms and conditions, let alone 'agree' to them.  State this is why you require an authorised, signed and dated version of the site map agreed with the landowner, not a Google StreetView mock up created by ParkingEye to get past POPLA.

Say this EVEN IF you already said it at POPLA stage, as the litigation team are not the same people as appeals clerks.

enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

Deadly86

Hi CM,
Thanks for responding so quickly. Just to confirm, they did issue a site map of signage at POPLA stage so would you suggest still asking for it again? There were 3 signs that i supposedly went past but they are all situated on the ramp to the block which is entered from a 40mph dual carriageway and not exactly reasonable to stop at and read for fear of blocking the ramp.

Coupon-mad

 they did issue a site map of signage at POPLA stage 

Read my reply again - I edited and added something about that home-made map!

D_P_Dance

PE signs are pants, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading/p1

ANPR can also be pants,  also  read this.  

https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/18/surrey-writing-on-womans-jumper-landed-couple-with-fine-when-she-walked-in-bus-lane-15439916/

Have you complained to tour MP?

Deadly86

Have you complained to tour MP?

I havent done so as yet, but what sort of thing do I need to say? I presume the MP wont get things overturned so is it more a case of making them aware of the situation so they can raise it further? I have looked on the search function for an example letter to MP but there are 9.5k mentions of emailing MP under parking alone so could take a while to find anything useful.

Read my reply again - I edited and added something about that home-made map!

Thanks CM. Have sent something over to them along the lines of what you suggested. Will update when something comes back and seek advice for the next step.

Deadly86

Hi All, thought I'd offer an update.
PE have finally responded and given a stock response of the fine still stands and the outstanding amount that was questionned is still £100. I presume they havent read my email as they certainly didnt address the points raised.
I have had a response from my MP who is willing to assist and contact PE himself but was keen to see what response I got 1st so that will be the next port of call. I have also had more communication with the landowner who has requested the ticket is withdrawn, could be an issue that PE no longer have the contract so I dont know if they have to withdraw it or not but  it is promising.

I have 14 days to pay the fine or face further court costs etc so what is the advice to do at this point? Obviously with Christmas breaks just around the corner the landowner and MP may not act on anything until the new year and then obviously the next stage is implemented and I know PE wont be taking time off over the festive period

Coupon-mad

Crack on with your plan

If PE have not sent a LBCCC yet then there is loads of time to sort this out and they can't just file a claim without a LBCCC first, to which you can respond at your leisure within a month.  Loads of time.

If you get a claim, defend it in 2022.  PE only add £85 in court/legal fees so no biggie and no CCJ risk as long as they have the right postal address for you.

Deadly86

Hi CM, LBCCC has been issued, that is what bought me to the forum. I went back to them with your previous advice which put everything on hold and they have sent a stock reply to me and said I now have 14 days to pay. It will be defended fully though.

Do you know if a fine can be enforced if the landowner asks for it to be waived?

Redx

Deadly86 said:

Hi CM, LBCCC has been issued, that is what bought me to the forum. I went back to them with your previous advice which put everything on hold and they have sent a stock reply to me and said I now have 14 days to pay. It will be defended fully though.

Do you know if a fine can be enforced if the landowner asks for it to be waived?

Only a judge can answer the underlying query above

But I will add that if it was a fine it would be thrown out , because parking eye and every other private parking company cannot fine anyone , so it's not a fine and never was a fine ( or. Ticket ) !! Only you are using the 4 letter F word !! 😜😜😜

It's an invoice as was pointed out on the TV programme on channel 5 last week ! The one that coupon mad and Bargepole participated in 👍👍

It might seem pedantic , but it's a basic fundamental , so I do not believe that PE called it a fine , ever !!

It's an NTK PCN , parking charge notice ( invoice for alleged breach of contract )

Having the landowner wanting it cancelled and on your side is a powerful legal point in any Defence , to answer your underlying query

14 days notice to reply is not an LBCCC , 30 days notice is an LBC , which also includes financial forms that you do not fill in

Deadly86

Thanks for the response Red.
An LBCCC has been issued, i have the letter and financial forms on my desk. I came to the forum for advice and went back to them with what was suggested. PE have provided a stock response to my enquiry that includes this -

We can confirm that £100.00 remains outstanding and that full payment is required within the next 14 days to prevent further action. We are prepared to take legal action if necessary and should court proceedings be issued, further costs will be incurred. These will include, but are not limited to, the court claim issue fee and the solicitors costs referred to within the Letter Before Claim.

Point taken about the wording of 'fine'. I will ensure it is referred to as a PCN going forwards.
Hopefully PE will follow the request of the landowner and this can all be put to bed but I wont hold my breath.