PPC situation

ss123

Hi

I've tried to read through the Newbie information on this and am a little confused still - please can someone point me please to recommended options to follow for the below situation?

Paid for all day parking at the advertised rate ('til 9am next day) using a debit card in favour of the PPC, entered VRN correctly (or so I thought) and displayed (& still retain) paper ticket 
Received PCN (with pictures of the parking Ts & Cs, which state if conditions contravened the Parker agrees to pay £100) claiming 'no trace of payment'. We had left well within our entitled parking period and had not parked in more than 1 bay as the car park was a grassy area. 
Appealed PCN using their on line system & the PPC offered to reduce PCN charge to £30 if paid within 14 days as they had a record of a partial registration number entered around the time my vehicle entered the car park. We did not pay the £30 as we have already paid the correct fee for parking.
30 days later we then received a letter from BW Legal pursuing the £100 (above) + client debt recovery costs of £60. Wrote to the PPC within 10 days to clarify our position, stating the charge is a penalty and the PPC had suffered no loss
PPC responded that the matter is now with BW legal
30 days after the PPC responded, as above, on 8/11 we received a reminder letter 'outstanding account' with payment options and a threat that if they do not hear from us by 7/12 the account will progress to a Letter of Claim, on expiry if unpaid or no arrangement to pay, the PPC will take legal action to recover the sum due.

Do we ask for a SAR and notify BW Legal of the same, write back referring to recent cases - there was one relating to Higgis / Hegges where someone had entered their registration number wholly incorrectly where the PPC was claiming similarly for breach and the judge ruled for the parker?

Thanks v much in advance

Coupon-mad

Wait for the LBC then respond as per the NEWBIES thread to get it on hold past Xmas if that suits you.

Do the SAR now and ask for evidence of this 'partial numberplate' so you can see how close a match it was, and ask why the PPC did not carry out any manual checks and identify the close match VRM before issuing an inappropriate PCN automatically?

Which PPC?

Le_Kirk

You can submit a SAR to get everything they have on you.  You can write to BW Legal telling them, that whilst you deny any debt exists, you are seeking debt advice and they must put the claim on hold for 30 days in line with the pre-action protocol for debt claims.  In the meantime, you can read the NEWBIE sticky second post, including the link to how to complete the AoS (for when the claim form arrives) and research the standard defence template which you will need if/when the claim form drops on your door mat. One of your defence points will be that the PDT was not working correctly and failed to record your full VRM.

ss123

Hi @Coupon-mad

Thanks for your guidance. Sorry had to step away from pc and now back online - Premier Parking Solutions. Will do as you suggest and post up outcomes

ss123

Hi @Le-kirk

Will do - just before they require a response and advise accordingly. There is no number plate on the receipt so how would anyone know if the thing was working correctly?! anyhoo - back on line soon after..

Thanks
Me

D_P_Dance

I've tried to read through the Newbie information on this and am a little confused still 

Keep reading until the prnnies drop, this is not painting by numbers. 

From what you have told us, if they are daft enough to go to court thay will struggle.  Condider complaints to Trading Standards and your MP.  

we then received a letter from BW Legal pursuing the £100 (above) + client debt recovery costs of £60. 

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount of £60 for debt collection. This amounts to double recover and some Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

However, a VCS appealed this so it may not apply in all cases, read this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntksx9g7177ahyg/VCS v Percy v1 Amendments (2).pdf?dl=0Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

ss123

Hi @D_P_Dance

Thanks for your reply and pointers - perfect. 

ss123

Le_Kirk said:

You can submit a SAR to get everything they have on you.  You can write to BW Legal telling them, that whilst you deny any debt exists, you are seeking debt advice and they must put the claim on hold for 30 days in line with the pre-action protocol for debt claims.  In the meantime, you can read the NEWBIE sticky second post, including the link to how to complete the AoS (for when the claim form arrives) and research the standard defence template which you will need if/when the claim form drops on your door mat. One of your defence points will be that the PDT was not working correctly and failed to record your full VRM.

Hi @LeKirk

SAR requested from PPS - no reply yet. Also emailed BW Legal before the 30 days expired in their November letter (to which we had an auto reply to verify identity) and lo and behold a subsequent letter from BW legal dated on day 30 saying we have not responded to their letter of November giving another 14 days to pay before legal action. Do you suggest emailing them again or waiting until the LBC arrives?

ss123

MP duly emailed

Le_Kirk

ss123 said:

Le_Kirk said:

You can submit a SAR to get everything they have on you.  You can write to BW Legal telling them, that whilst you deny any debt exists, you are seeking debt advice and they must put the claim on hold for 30 days in line with the pre-action protocol for debt claims.  In the meantime, you can read the NEWBIE sticky second post, including the link to how to complete the AoS (for when the claim form arrives) and research the standard defence template which you will need if/when the claim form drops on your door mat. One of your defence points will be that the PDT was not working correctly and failed to record your full VRM.

Hi @LeKirk

SAR requested from PPS - no reply yet. Also emailed BW Legal before the 30 days expired in their November letter (to which we had an auto reply to verify identity) and lo and behold a subsequent letter from BW legal dated on day 30 saying we have not responded to their letter of November giving another 14 days to pay before legal action. Do you suggest emailing them again or waiting until the LBC arrives?

PPCs (well any company really) has one calendar month to reply to a SAR.  If the first letter from BW Legal gave you 30 days to pay or respond that is already a LBC.  Why would you expect another one?  Did the auto reply that you received require you to complete some forms or was it just an "e-mail verification, click this link" type of verification?

ss123

Le_Kirk said:

ss123 said:

Le_Kirk said:

You can submit a SAR to get everything they have on you.  You can write to BW Legal telling them, that whilst you deny any debt exists, you are seeking debt advice and they must put the claim on hold for 30 days in line with the pre-action protocol for debt claims.  In the meantime, you can read the NEWBIE sticky second post, including the link to how to complete the AoS (for when the claim form arrives) and research the standard defence template which you will need if/when the claim form drops on your door mat. One of your defence points will be that the PDT was not working correctly and failed to record your full VRM.

Hi @LeKirk

SAR requested from PPS - no reply yet. Also emailed BW Legal before the 30 days expired in their November letter (to which we had an auto reply to verify identity) and lo and behold a subsequent letter from BW legal dated on day 30 saying we have not responded to their letter of November giving another 14 days to pay before legal action. Do you suggest emailing them again or waiting until the LBC arrives?

PPCs (well any company really) has one calendar month to reply to a SAR.  If the first letter from BW Legal gave you 30 days to pay or respond that is already a LBC.  Why would you expect another one?  Did the auto reply that you received require you to complete some forms or was it just an "e-mail verification, click this link" type of verification?

@Le@Le_Kirk (and @Co@Coupon-mad & @D_@D_P_Dance)
 
 3 letters received from BWL: 
1st - £60 added - BWL debt recovery (is that legal? the Ts & Cs state 'non-payment will result in additional charges which will be added to the value of the charge and for which the driver will be liable on an indemnity basis')  requesting payment by 7/11. To which we asked PPC to stop / asked for a POPLA code - PPC ignored the request for POPLA code and referred to BWL. Does it matter if the driver / keeper were not the same? This feels like unfair contract terms and an abuse of process
2nd - further chase for £160 - to which above email sent to ask for a 'stay'
3rd letter - extending for 2 weeks a right to a payment plan - after which it will be withdrawn and County Court litigation starts

BWL email reply was to verify respondent email details - address / car reg..from a selection of options provided.

Have not accesses their on line portal for payment - as invited each time 

So I now need to pull the arguments together from NeWBIES? I have removed reference to BW as I do not want to feed them with my info