Beating the smart meter bullies

GingerTim

wittynamegoeshere said:

If readings were every few seconds then it could be used for surveillance.  Spooks could stare at their power meter display watching your moves... Shower on, he's getting up, kettle on, he's having a cuppa etc etc.  But I doubt that any intelligence could be gained from 30 minute readings that you couldn't work out from parking outside and looking at your driveway.

If anyone wants to know what you're up to they're going to target your phone, not your stupid smart meter.

I really don't see the issue, other than the fact that the government overplayed the exciting publicity which probably made people suspicious.

I don’t want The Man knowing when I’m vacuuming!

(/sarcasm)

Spies

Why does anyone actually care that they can profile you based on electric usage?

savers_united

In reality does anyone actually think that those 10% who hold out and do not get a smart meter fitted are somehow going to be excluded from any future changes.

Just imagine everyone on a street being disconnected except for 2 or 3 houses with no smart meter, or certain rules being placed on those with a smart meter and not on those without one.

There would be riots, communication devices smashed and smart meters forced to operate in dumb mode. That is reality, we cannot have and people would not accept a 2 tier country that disadvantages those who have taken up a smart meter offer and favours those who refuse to fit one.

By time any of these at the moment hypothetical things happen most households will have a smart meter unless there is good reason not too, eventually every meter will need to be replaced for safety reasons and with no analogue meters now being produced there will be only one type of meter, a smart one. 

wild666

I don't want this thread to become political, but my main objection to smart meters is that in the future, perhaps within the next 10 years or so, they are likely to be used to ration electricity, cutting off domestic supplies when you exceed your "quota

They wouldn't be able to switch the supply off for more than, in my estimation, 15 hours or so as freezers would start to see food in them defrosted beyond the point at which the food can be called frozen. 
If the utility company was to restrict the number of kWh a home could use in a day, week, month then with electric vehicles then it would have to allow at least 3300 kWh in any total for charging an electric vehicle so usage would need to be in the 6500 to 7500 kWh region per domestic home. 

[Deleted User]

wild666 said:

I don't want this thread to become political, but my main objection to smart meters is that in the future, perhaps within the next 10 years or so, they are likely to be used to ration electricity, cutting off domestic supplies when you exceed your "quota

They wouldn't be able to switch the supply off for more than, in my estimation, 15 hours or so as freezers would start to see food in them defrosted beyond the point at which the food can be called frozen. 
If the utility company was to restrict the number of kWh a home could use in a day, week, month then with electric vehicles then it would have to allow at least 3300 kWh in any total for charging an electric vehicle so usage would need to be in the 6500 to 7500 kWh region per domestic home. 

If your scenario is correct, then any rationing will be done on a regional rather than individual basis - as was the case during the 3 day week in the 70s. Homes with analogue meters will not be left on Grid. That said, no Government would last 5 minutes if rationing became the norm. Indeed, with c.50% of our electricity coming from gas and coal why are we not doing this already in pursuit of Net Zero? The answer is that the public would not accept it.

The problem at the moment is that the Grid has to pay coal stations to tick over on a ‘just in case’ basis and pay wind farm operators to shut down their turbines when supply exceeds demand. Smart meters offer a way of better managing renewable/fixed supply versus demand.

The built in Demand Side Response disconnection facility built into smart meters has instantaneous power in mind NOT kWhs. For example, the UK’s peak demand is from 4 to 7pm in the evenings. At the moment, I can turn on my cooker; dishwasher and washing machine during this period and pay the same unit price as if I did it at a time of the day when supply exceeded demand. A supplier might offer me a tariff whereby I pay 35p/kWh during the period 4 to 7 pm and 15p/kWh at other times. Alternatively, a professional couple who are not home before 7pm might agree to a cheaper electricity contract but one which restricts the instantaneous power that they can withdraw from the Grid to, say, 2kWs during the period 4 to 7pm. If they exceed the kW (not kWhs) limit, then after many messages they run the risk of a remote disconnection. This is how DSR works in many countries already.

In sum, no Government is going to introduce rationing as a norm. Energy security is always seen as a Government priority.  We may see restrictions on such things as EV home charging at certain times of the day, and we may see smart devices that turn off for an hour during periods of very high demand. Your resistance to smart metering will not provide you with the protection that you are hoping for. The lack of historical profiled usage will undoubtedly bar you from the cheaper tariffs that are already emerging in the market. The days of kWhs a year tariff comparisons are numbered.

Keep_pedalling

wild666 said:

I don't want this thread to become political, but my main objection to smart meters is that in the future, perhaps within the next 10 years or so, they are likely to be used to ration electricity, cutting off domestic supplies when you exceed your "quota

They wouldn't be able to switch the supply off for more than, in my estimation, 15 hours or so as freezers would start to see food in them defrosted beyond the point at which the food can be called frozen. 
If the utility company was to restrict the number of kWh a home could use in a day, week, month then with electric vehicles then it would have to allow at least 3300 kWh in any total for charging an electric vehicle so usage would need to be in the 6500 to 7500 kWh region per domestic home. 

If they were going to be that draconian, they would also take away your option to refuse to have one fitted. I can’t see the point of limiting your access to some of the best available tariffs based on what might happen in 10 years time. 

Ultrasonic

wild666 said:

I don't want this thread to become political, but my main objection to smart meters is that in the future, perhaps within the next 10 years or so, they are likely to be used to ration electricity, cutting off domestic supplies when you exceed your "quota

I suspect the post above reflects what would actually happen. Let's say it doesn't though, consider what should in any way make you exempt from sharing the collective responsibility/burden of limiting energy use.

jimjames

wild666 said:

I don't want this thread to become political, but my main objection to smart meters is that in the future, perhaps within the next 10 years or so, they are likely to be used to ration electricity, cutting off domestic supplies when you exceed your "quota

I think this seems highly unlikely. What is far more likely is dynamic pricing where the rate varies according to demand or time of day. Another version of Economy 7 but far more granular.

Armengar

What will actually happen is that suppliers will simply refuse to accept customers that arent on a smart meter.  If you move house into somewhere without a smart meter then you either have one installed or sit on the incumbent capped tariff.  Meanwhile the tariffs will be variable day charges with peak times costing more and off peak costing less.  This will even the curve for generators such as wind that cant do much with overgeneration during the night.