Faulty Vehicle - Diagnosed early, misguided by dealership

OllieSiSiSi

Hey folks, I'm at my whits end having bought a car I can't seem to get a satisfactory outcome. Apologies for the long explanation but it needs context.

Ok, so I bought a car on finance on April 30th 2021, (Ford Focus 2014 2.0L Diesel Automatic) during the test drive I was alone; I was driving cautiously as you do so at this point I didn’t notice any issues with the car.

Get the car home and drive around more like I own it. I would say I drive like a taxi driver. I soon start to realise the car doesn’t driver as smoothly as it should.

In low gears, the car would jolt between changes. It would sluggishly change gear too with the rest. I live in Stafford and I took a drive down to see a friend in South Wales. The morning of my return, I started the car from cold and drove off barely 10 meters  I then get an error pop up on the dash – “Transmission limited function, see manual” and an orange exclamation mark. The car then stayed in limp mode. I had to pull over; turn the engine off and back on again which then cleared the warning and limp mode and the car got me home.

At a convenient point to myself (17th May 2021) I take the car back to the dealership (Jamie) to diagnose what was wrong with the car. A 7 year old car that had at that point done around 93k miles.  I went out for a brief drive with Jamie to demonstrate the problems – which aren’t apparent 100% of the time typically so on this occasion the car wasn’t nearly as severe as it could be even with me driving it. Jamie then got me to take their mechanic out for the same drive and the car was misbehaving but again, not as bad as it could be at times.

In summary, the mechanic stated that given the age of the vehicle, and the high mileage, this was normal for that car. They couldn’t explain the error on the dash as it wasn’t present.

Jamie had explained that they use a service provided by the AA to repair cars that aren’t local to the dealership where work is carried out under warranty. He said he would contact them and see what could/should be done and he’d be in touch if they could help.... I never heard anything.

So not being mechanically minded, and taking the professional mechanic’s opinion as accurate, I just put it down that this was to be expected behaviour going forward with my car and carried on driving around.

Come November, I took a drive down to see my dad in Devon, as I approached junction 6 on the M5 at 70mph, the car jolted, went into limp mode and I now had a red warning on the dash this time: “Transmission Malfunction Service Now”

I had to exit the motorway and restart the car to get going again but the same thing happened again within 100 miles! Luckily I made it down to Devon and home again a few days later. Once home I got in touch with my finance company to see where I stood as I knew the car was out of warranty but this was an underlying intermittent fault I discovered within days of buying the car yet it had now gotten more serious...

They advised me to speak to the dealership which I then did. I sent them an email as I had found a link that blatantly showed in black and white what the fault was and what needed to be done to remedy it. A new clutch and a replaced/refurbished gearbox. Not a cheap fix, but a fix nonetheless.

After a few days I had had absolutely no response so chased it up. Jamie said he hadn’t received my email and could I send it to a different address, which I then did.

A couple more days later, I followed up and he tells me he has to speak with his business partner (Aaron) to see what they can do. He was out of the office until the next day.

A week later and still no feedback in any way shape or form, I bit the bullet and drove the hour to the dealership and spoke with both Jamie and Aaron. They sat there and acted dumb. Even though I’d sent a long explaining email and the link, they had me describing the problem showing they hadn’t even bothered reading what I’d told them. They argued that if I’d known of the issue, why I’d waited 6 months and 5,000 miles to raise the problem! I had raised it straight away but went off the word of their mechanic that that was normal where it actually wasn’t! They explained that the car was outside of its’ warranty now and the warranty providers wouldn’t do anything. I stated that I knew this but I raised the issue during the warranty period where I was fobbed off by the mechanic playing on the fact I wouldn’t know what was normal and what wasn’t.

To say I was furious was an understatement and I feel the outcome was just their way of getting me out of their office. They said they would speak with the finance company and see what they could do about it. Now the company they apparently were going to speak with was a broker not the finance company.

They said they would call me by the close of business.

Needless to say, I didn’t get a call. This was on Friday 19th November. So Saturday morning 10:30, I text Jamie and asked ‘any progress?’ 18:30 that evening I had a message from Aaron stating ‘We are waiting a call back from ‘broker’ on Monday to see how this moves forward.’

Tuesday comes and still nothing so I called Aaron for an update. He tells me they’ve not heard anything and Jamie will chase it up later, meanwhilst, could I get a settlement figure from the finance company?

I managed to get the settlement details and emailed them over on the Wednesday. Thursday morning I message again ‘Any progress? Been nearly a week since I came in....’

To which I’m still waiting on a reply.

I called the broker last night as I was pretty sure they were just fobbing me off again and they confirmed that it is nothing to do with them. It would be the finance company.

So I’m unsure where to go now. I could apparently reject the vehicle according to ‘Which!’ but that’s when the issue is discovered so long as I don’t drive the vehicle. This is where I enter a grey area. Can I still reject the vehicle given I was ensured that it wasn’t an issue by the dealership way back in May. I’m really not sure where I stand. I want either a repair or replacement. And a dealership that don’t misguide their customers.

Aylesbury_Duck

OllieSiSiSi said:

Hey folks, I'm at my whits end having bought a car I can't seem to get a satisfactory outcome. Apologies for the long explanation but it needs context.

Ok, so I bought a car on finance on April 30th 2021, (Ford Focus 2014 2.0L Diesel Automatic) during the test drive I was alone; I was driving cautiously as you do so at this point I didn’t notice any issues with the car.

Get the car home and drive around more like I own it. I would say I drive like a taxi driver. I soon start to realise the car doesn’t driver as smoothly as it should.

In low gears, the car would jolt between changes. It would sluggishly change gear too with the rest. I live in Stafford and I took a drive down to see a friend in South Wales. The morning of my return, I started the car from cold and drove off barely 10 meters  I then get an error pop up on the dash – “Transmission limited function, see manual” and an orange exclamation mark. The car then stayed in limp mode. I had to pull over; turn the engine off and back on again which then cleared the warning and limp mode and the car got me home.

At a convenient point to myself (17th May 2021) I take the car back to the dealership (Jamie) to diagnose what was wrong with the car. A 7 year old car that had at that point done around 93k miles.  I went out for a brief drive with Jamie to demonstrate the problems – which aren’t apparent 100% of the time typically so on this occasion the car wasn’t nearly as severe as it could be even with me driving it. Jamie then got me to take their mechanic out for the same drive and the car was misbehaving but again, not as bad as it could be at times.

In summary, the mechanic stated that given the age of the vehicle, and the high mileage, this was normal for that car. They couldn’t explain the error on the dash as it wasn’t present.

Jamie had explained that they use a service provided by the AA to repair cars that aren’t local to the dealership where work is carried out under warranty. He said he would contact them and see what could/should be done and he’d be in touch if they could help.... I never heard anything.

So not being mechanically minded, and taking the professional mechanic’s opinion as accurate, I just put it down that this was to be expected behaviour going forward with my car and carried on driving around.

Come November, I took a drive down to see my dad in Devon, as I approached junction 6 on the M5 at 70mph, the car jolted, went into limp mode and I now had a red warning on the dash this time: “Transmission Malfunction Service Now”

I had to exit the motorway and restart the car to get going again but the same thing happened again within 100 miles! Luckily I made it down to Devon and home again a few days later. Once home I got in touch with my finance company to see where I stood as I knew the car was out of warranty but this was an underlying intermittent fault I discovered within days of buying the car yet it had now gotten more serious...

They advised me to speak to the dealership which I then did. I sent them an email as I had found a link that blatantly showed in black and white what the fault was and what needed to be done to remedy it. A new clutch and a replaced/refurbished gearbox. Not a cheap fix, but a fix nonetheless.

After a few days I had had absolutely no response so chased it up. Jamie said he hadn’t received my email and could I send it to a different address, which I then did.

A couple more days later, I followed up and he tells me he has to speak with his business partner (Aaron) to see what they can do. He was out of the office until the next day.

A week later and still no feedback in any way shape or form, I bit the bullet and drove the hour to the dealership and spoke with both Jamie and Aaron. They sat there and acted dumb. Even though I’d sent a long explaining email and the link, they had me describing the problem showing they hadn’t even bothered reading what I’d told them. They argued that if I’d known of the issue, why I’d waited 6 months and 5,000 miles to raise the problem! I had raised it straight away but went off the word of their mechanic that that was normal where it actually wasn’t! They explained that the car was outside of its’ warranty now and the warranty providers wouldn’t do anything. I stated that I knew this but I raised the issue during the warranty period where I was fobbed off by the mechanic playing on the fact I wouldn’t know what was normal and what wasn’t.

To say I was furious was an understatement and I feel the outcome was just their way of getting me out of their office. They said they would speak with the finance company and see what they could do about it. Now the company they apparently were going to speak with was a broker not the finance company.

They said they would call me by the close of business.

Needless to say, I didn’t get a call. This was on Friday 19th November. So Saturday morning 10:30, I text Jamie and asked ‘any progress?’ 18:30 that evening I had a message from Aaron stating ‘We are waiting a call back from ‘broker’ on Monday to see how this moves forward.’

Tuesday comes and still nothing so I called Aaron for an update. He tells me they’ve not heard anything and Jamie will chase it up later, meanwhilst, could I get a settlement figure from the finance company?

I managed to get the settlement details and emailed them over on the Wednesday. Thursday morning I message again ‘Any progress? Been nearly a week since I came in....’

To which I’m still waiting on a reply.

I called the broker last night as I was pretty sure they were just fobbing me off again and they confirmed that it is nothing to do with them. It would be the finance company.

So I’m unsure where to go now. I could apparently reject the vehicle according to ‘Which!’ but that’s when the issue is discovered so long as I don’t drive the vehicle. This is where I enter a grey area. Can I still reject the vehicle given I was ensured that it wasn’t an issue by the dealership way back in May. I’m really not sure where I stand. I want either a repair or replacement. And a dealership that don’t misguide their customers.

To be honest, I can see their point.  You've had two dashboard warnings, and on both occasions you've reset the system and driven substantial distances, the second occasion being a red warning yet you drove to Devon and back without getting any professional opinion.

You've complicated the situation by adding thousands of miles knowing of the problem, and it looks like a lot of them were done despite warnings.  The dealer can now contend that what was perhaps a simple fault is now a much more major one as a result of your wilful negligence.  The time to reject the car was when you first had the problem, but you continued to drive it, only took it to them at a time convenient to you (around two weeks after having the problem) and then agreed it was acceptable.  You've since driven for six months knowing it needed a new clutch and possible a new gearbox, items that will wear over time and use.

It's going to be a tricky one to unwind, but I suggest you start by getting a mechanic to inspect the car and determine as best s/he can how much of the problem the dealer is liable for, and how much is down to you driving 5,000 miles with a known problem and despite warnings to stop driving and seek service.  I don't fancy your chances getting anything more than a contribution to the costs of repair.

OllieSiSiSi

Thank you for your response. I can very much see what you mean which is definitely some responsibility on my part.

This is the first vehicle I've bought on finance and didn't do any major digging when I first had issues as I felt the dealership would steer me right being that's what they're in the business of. I had no choice but to drive it home the first time as I couldn't afford to have paid for recovery so I would have been stuck in Wales. If I had arranged recovery they'd have probably refused anyway as once the engine had stopped and restarted, the issues disappeared as did the error code as I had it plugged in to diagnostics once I got back. 

I carried on driving after the first revisit to the dealer as he said that it's down to the age and mileage, nothing else. So he misdiagnosed and misguided me. Any actual decent mechanic would've known this is a common fault with the car which I have only learned myself recently having looked more at the problems.

Aylesbury_Duck

Clutch and gearbox problems usually are down to age, mileage and driving style.  A seven year old automatic with 93k on the clock, if it's been tootling around towns and cities every day, might be expected to have worn transmission components.  Going back to the original advertisement, what did it say? Do you have a copy of it?  If the dealer made commitments or descriptions that were untrue, you have some extra evidence in your favour, but the mileage you've done is going to rule out the dealer being completely liable for a new transmission.

born_again

OllieSiSiSi said:

Thank you for your response. I can very much see what you mean which is definitely some responsibility on my part.

This is the first vehicle I've bought on finance and didn't do any major digging when I first had issues as I felt the dealership would steer me right being that's what they're in the business of. I had no choice but to drive it home the first time as I couldn't afford to have paid for recovery so I would have been stuck in Wales. If I had arranged recovery they'd have probably refused anyway as once the engine had stopped and restarted, the issues disappeared as did the error code as I had it plugged in to diagnostics once I got back. 

I carried on driving after the first revisit to the dealer as he said that it's down to the age and mileage, nothing else. So he misdiagnosed and misguided me. Any actual decent mechanic would've known this is a common fault with the car which I have only learned myself recently having looked more at the problems.

That covers a multitude of sins. At 93K it could mean that the autogearbox was on its way out, which is a wear & tear part.

TBH. What he said was not a diagnosis, merely a comment on a car of that age.

This might be one for posting on a ford forum to get their advice on if there is a known issue.

OllieSiSiSi

Sadly I don't have any original advertising proofs. I know they'd done a lot of work on the car prior to me picking it up as it was an MOT failure but one thing they did say when I went back last week is that a gearbox service wasn't done.

Glad you've shown me some points, I can accept I may have some liability at this stage now. Just annoys me they put me in a position where I had faith in what they told me. Too trusting.

Funnily enough, when I first went back, I sent the finance company an email of the whole situation. Just to have it recorded in some form on their records so I'm wondering if that gives me any more grounds.

Aylesbury_Duck

I think the finance company will take the same stance as the dealer, I'm afraid.  They're not going to want to assume liability for something that's inconclusive.

You should get the car to a trusted, independent mechanic for a proper diagnosis.  At the moment you have a suspected problem but it's not confirmed.  If you're going to get anything out of the dealer you need a diagnosis and an estimate of repair costs. And stop driving the car, you're almost certainly compounding the problem every time you drive it.

OllieSiSiSi

born_again said:

OllieSiSiSi said:

Thank you for your response. I can very much see what you mean which is definitely some responsibility on my part.

This is the first vehicle I've bought on finance and didn't do any major digging when I first had issues as I felt the dealership would steer me right being that's what they're in the business of. I had no choice but to drive it home the first time as I couldn't afford to have paid for recovery so I would have been stuck in Wales. If I had arranged recovery they'd have probably refused anyway as once the engine had stopped and restarted, the issues disappeared as did the error code as I had it plugged in to diagnostics once I got back. 

I carried on driving after the first revisit to the dealer as he said that it's down to the age and mileage, nothing else. So he misdiagnosed and misguided me. Any actual decent mechanic would've known this is a common fault with the car which I have only learned myself recently having looked more at the problems.

That covers a multitude of sins. At 93K it could mean that the autogearbox was on its way out, which is a wear & tear part.

TBH. What he said was not a diagnosis, merely a comment on a car of that age.

This might be one for posting on a ford forum to get their advice on if there is a known issue.

Wear and tear is fine but the car should have lasted more than 7 months either way.

OllieSiSiSi

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I think the finance company will take the same stance as the dealer, I'm afraid.  They're not going to want to assume liability for something that's inconclusive.

You should get the car to a trusted, independent mechanic for a proper diagnosis.  At the moment you have a suspected problem but it's not confirmed.  If you're going to get anything out of the dealer you need a diagnosis and an estimate of repair costs. And stop driving the car, you're almost certainly compounding the problem every time you drive it.

That's a vicious circle, I'd have to drive it to Ford to get it confirmed. Lol.

born_again

OllieSiSiSi said:

born_again said:

OllieSiSiSi said:

Thank you for your response. I can very much see what you mean which is definitely some responsibility on my part.

This is the first vehicle I've bought on finance and didn't do any major digging when I first had issues as I felt the dealership would steer me right being that's what they're in the business of. I had no choice but to drive it home the first time as I couldn't afford to have paid for recovery so I would have been stuck in Wales. If I had arranged recovery they'd have probably refused anyway as once the engine had stopped and restarted, the issues disappeared as did the error code as I had it plugged in to diagnostics once I got back. 

I carried on driving after the first revisit to the dealer as he said that it's down to the age and mileage, nothing else. So he misdiagnosed and misguided me. Any actual decent mechanic would've known this is a common fault with the car which I have only learned myself recently having looked more at the problems.

That covers a multitude of sins. At 93K it could mean that the autogearbox was on its way out, which is a wear & tear part.

TBH. What he said was not a diagnosis, merely a comment on a car of that age.

This might be one for posting on a ford forum to get their advice on if there is a known issue.

Wear and tear is fine but the car should have lasted more than 7 months either way.

But the car was 8 years old with 93K on the clock when you bought it. So it has lasted a lot longer than 7 months. Has the car been serviced in the time you have had it? Or did it have a full service before you bought it?

It's not like it's a brand new car that has only done 5K miles. Where you would have a valid point.

OllieSiSiSi

It may be 8 years old, but I don't go and buy a car and pay so many thousands for it to have just 7 months use out of it!

It had a service of some description as I have a stamp in the book but that's as much as I know/