Wi-Fi extenders

Hebrews12

I'm wondering if anyone can help me navigate the minefield that is Wi-Fi extenders please?  I've been using a couple for a while - a Netgear one and a TP Link one - and am not getting great results.  To be fair, our internet speed isn't great anyway and there are 5 people in the house but I've got one extender in the kitchen and one upstairs.  Neither of them are too far away from the router.  I obviously see the main router when I try and connect to the Wi-Fi and then I see a router_EXT as well and I'm not sure if this is both of them and it connects to whichever is closest or whether I haven't set them up properly and there should be an _EXT and an _EXT2?  I also learned today that extenders should be hard-wired in to the router which seems crazy. I thought we were done with having wires trailing across the house!  Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.  

Neil_Jones

Amazing wi-fi speed doesn't necessarily translate to great internet speed.  You need a decent speed in the first place.  You can extend it until the cows come home but the speed of the internet itself will always be the limiting factor.

[Deleted User]

There are many different ways of using extenders and really depend on your circumstances and what works best when tested.

The first thing is the positioning, ideally half way between the main router and the dead zone where your are trying to get better coverage for. Installing them at the dead zone won't give good results.

Make sure all your wifi routers / extenders are out in the open away from any solid objects and high up if possible. Any solid object reduces the signal including furniture, glass, metal, wood, walls etc so ensure the path from the wifi access point to the device is as clear as possible.

As for the network names, sometimes giving all the wifi access points the same SSID (network name) will achieve good results because your devices can roam between each one according to the strongest signal.

If you find your devices don't roam as you expect, then different names might work better so you can manually select them. Call the extenders by their location - eg "back bedroom" to make it easy to confirm you are connecting to the right one.

Note that wifi extenders can slow down the network when they are all talking on the same channel as they all have to share that bandwidth and also send the signal twice over that limited bandwidth. Choosing different channels for the extenders can improve performance.

Making appropriate use of the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz channels is important, put your slow devices on the 2.4Ghz channel and your faster ones such as phones on the 5Ghz usually gives better results.

Getting a bit techie here but there is also the hidden node problem with wifi networks. Before a device talks to your router, it listens to the channel to see if it is clear to talk. If another device is already talking to the access point it will wait. But if it can't hear that other device because it is the other side of the house, it might talk over it.

And yes wiring your extenders gives by far the best performance, you don't need wires trailing across the house, a bit of thought and care and you can neatly run an ethernet cable to any room in the house and the results will be worth the time.

Mister_G

OP - You may find that Powerline adaptors would work better for you.

These use the wiring of your house to carry the internet to wherever you need it.  There is one unit that is hard wired to your router with an ethernet cable and then you can use either ethernet adaptors or WiFi adaptors that just plug into a 13amp socket wherever you need internet access.

This is one make:

TL-WPA4220 KIT | AV600 Powerline Wi-Fi Kit | TP-Link United Kingdom

but others are available from other manufacturers.

I have been using four of these in total to provide complete coverage in my 4 bed semi for several years now with excellent results.

Alternatively, you could install a mesh network like this:

Deco M4 | AC1200 Whole Home Mesh Wi-Fi System | TP-Link United Kingdom

Currys were doing a set of three for £100.  Again, others are available.

WiFi extenders are cheap and convenient, but don't always produce the best results.

As has been stated above, hard wired ethernet is the most reliable solution, but not always the easiest to install.

HaroldWren5

As others have stated above, there are multiple ways to go about it. I think a good website to check out would be DongKnows which provides an easy to understand summary of how best to get your speed around your house/setup. 

Firstly, as someone mentioned, at the end of the day, the speed coming into your house is the maximum speed you can get to download from the Internet. You might be able to get faster transfer speeds in your internal network, but the maximum Internet speed depends on that (along with the speed at which website servers connect at as well). 

In most cases, if you get a speed below 200Mbps, you can cover that with Wifi mesh systems, and if below 150Mbps with Powerline Mesh extenders. When it comes to Wifi, the speed may have a higher latency/delay versus a wired connection, and unlike a wire, wireless speeds are affected by distance, walls, interference etc.

If you want to go fully wireless, then I would say get a Mesh system throughout the house that uses a Wireless Backhaul. They are more expensive, but you are paying for that dedicated Triband third channel that is solely used by the Hubs around the house to connect with each other. The other wireless bands are then used to serve client devices (your PCs, laptops, TVs, phones, tablets etc in your home). 

It all hinges on how much you want to pay. Mesh systems can range from anywhere between £200-300 up to £2000. 

If your speed is 150Mbps or below - Go for a Powerline Mesh network (not just a Powerline extender, but a pack that is a Mesh network). Alternatively, you could try the BT Home Wifi Discs (the standard version, NOT the Premium ones which are different and the reviews aren't as good) which come in a pack of 3. 

If your speed is around 300-500Mbps - You could try the BT Home Wifi Discs (Standard version), or else the ASUS Zen XT8 Mesh nodes which is a great product. The Amazon Eero and Google Wifi Mesh are also good, but depends if you want to sign up via their phone app (privacy issues).  

If your speed is 500-900Mbps - Go for the ASUS Zen XT8 Mesh system, or else the Netgear Orbi AX6000 Mesh (bit more expensive). Or run ethernet/POF wires from your main router to your rooms and put the ASUS/BT Wifi 6 Home Discs in those rooms to broadcast Wifi. 

Keruge

Hebrews12 said:

I'm wondering if anyone can help me navigate the minefield that is Wi-Fi extenders please?  I've been using a couple for a while - a Netgear one and a TP Link one - and am not getting great results.  To be fair, our internet speed isn't great anyway and there are 5 people in the house but I've got one extender in the kitchen and one upstairs.  Neither of them are too far away from the router.  I obviously see the main router when I try and connect to the Wi-Fi and then I see a router_EXT as well and I'm not sure if this is both of them and it connects to whichever is closest or whether I haven't set them up properly and there should be an _EXT and an _EXT2?  I also learned today that extenders should be hard-wired in to the router which seems crazy. I thought we were done with having wires trailing across the house!  Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.  

There are lots of ways to badly configure these extenders and they will exacerbate a bad connection. It sounds as if you just installed them but never configured them.

Some vendors promise you the solid wifi in every room, but the small print will probably still say that if your home gets 4mb download and 500k upload then that is what they are promising in every room. 

You say that your internet speed isn't great anyway and you say there are 5 people, but what are those 5 people doing?

If you have a teenager who is downloading torrents, gaming while 3 others are watching different netflix shows then performance will be variable.  On basic broadband the upload speed being flooded can affect the download speed, so torrents can cripple your network.

So before you invest in kit you need to look at what people are doing.  You might put that teenager on an old wireless N or even older to throttle them, this also allows you more control with restricting content.  You will of course need to change wifi passwords of the main router to implement this.

You also do not say what the issues are, is Netflix dropping the resolution or is it just your kids saying their gaming is not up to par (which usually means it is a latency issue)?

One way to improve performance is to run a bit of ethernet to the location of the rooms where you wish to extend the network, then put an old router connected via that ethernet. 

 You don't seem keen on ethernet cable but it makes a world of difference, it is solid, not affected by the microwave or other wifi networks and it is pretty easy to disguise, if you have carpet you can pull up the carpet and run it next to the cable grips. 

 I do use wireless bridges, but I take great care in doing a site survey with free software like acrylic, but look at reviews to see what you need.

https://www.dnsstuff.com/wifi-analyzer-software

https://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/best-wifi-analyzer/#7_Acrylic_WiFi

These software apps allow you to see what wifi channels are in use. you may have a neighbour blasting out their wifi on the same channel you use or there may be no conflict at all, knowing that can help.

If I can't run an ethernet between the routers on different floors I site the routers as close as possible, e.g. I put the router upstairs exactly above the one downstairs, then I run some ethernet upstairs to the room where I might want to site another router so they have their own dedicated wifi but can connect via cable for say a gaming console or PC.  I use old 2nd had routers for this and it works out way cheaper than a high performance MESH type system.

Don't get me wrong, there are some buildings where MESH is critical.  I had a friend with a 70's house, first issue was that the best wire coming into the house was actually one on the first floor socket not the old telephone port on the ground floor.  Then there was an issue with the walls, so we ran an ethernet cable to the loft from that best bedroom and put in a MESH router at a central point in the loft and another one directly under it but on the ground floor.  It has been flawless ever since.

I do things on the cheap so no MESH for me.

I use something called OpenWRT, it is firmware that replaced the firmware you get from your router manufacturer.  I can usually pick up a decent Netgear or Linksys for about £40 to £60 from the bay.  I flash it with OpenWrt and after a short learning curve I can now build a really good network with way more capabilities.  An easier firmware is DD-WRT it is easier but less powerful, both have their own forums for support and both are free.

Even if you use the stock firmware there can be issues, I used to use TPLink but they had different concepts to other manufacturers which made it harder. 

I think you need to start with a site survey, turn off the extenders and measure the wifi speed and make a note of what channel they are using, then check what other routers in the area you can see with acrylic or similar.  Then check the performance of devices connecting to your main router to see at what point the signal degrades. 

Check to see if you have multiple BT sockets, test the broadband speed with a wired ethernet on a laptop to the router for each of those sockets.  That will tell you what you are dealing with, look at the latency in those speed tests and do multiple test with multiple sites to get an overall picture.  Speedtest.net is OK but I find https://www.ispreview.co.uk/speed/  gives a better assessment, do not bother with the postcode, that is for their benefit, just hit the start button,

If they are all the same consider which is best to site as a central point that serves most of the rooms. Then site the extenders in a position where the signal they are picking up and repeating is reasonably strong.  For example you might resite the ISP router to the hall and put the extender in the hall upstairs.  If you site an extender in a location where the signal is only 50% then that 50% is all that will be repeated and it will degrade for each room.

What you should not be doing is repeating a repeated signal, it just adds to the latency.

Powerline adapters are an option, put a wanted ad on Freecycle and you will be sure to find someone who has some lying about unused, they are not brilliant but still may be better than repeating a wifi.

HaroldWren5

Keruge said:

Hebrews12 said:

I'm wondering if anyone can help me navigate the minefield that is Wi-Fi extenders please?  I've been using a couple for a while - a Netgear one and a TP Link one - and am not getting great results.  To be fair, our internet speed isn't great anyway and there are 5 people in the house but I've got one extender in the kitchen and one upstairs.  Neither of them are too far away from the router.  I obviously see the main router when I try and connect to the Wi-Fi and then I see a router_EXT as well and I'm not sure if this is both of them and it connects to whichever is closest or whether I haven't set them up properly and there should be an _EXT and an _EXT2?  I also learned today that extenders should be hard-wired in to the router which seems crazy. I thought we were done with having wires trailing across the house!  Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.  

There are lots of ways to badly configure these extenders and they will exacerbate a bad connection. It sounds as if you just installed them but never configured them.

Some vendors promise you the solid wifi in every room, but the small print will probably still say that if your home gets 4mb download and 500k upload then that is what they are promising in every room. 

Spot on about various ISP's "Wifi promises" when it comes to their subscription mesh nodes. I mean it seems pointless that they give a 5-10Mbps guarantee if you are trying to work out how best to distribute 500+Mbps around your home/premises! 

Another thing to remember is that the maximum speed you get will be based on what your client device is capable of receiving and the network speed in a mesh would be as fast as the slowest element of it when it comes to backhaul.