First time buyer - building regs issues found on survey

JM321

Hello!

I’m a first time buyer and my question relates to various things with the house I’m buying being non-compliant with building regs, which I only discovered after survey.

I’ve read as much as I can about this, and responses to similar questions seem to range from “do not buy this house, it will fall apart or be impossible to sell again” to “nobody really cares about this stuff apart from nervous, inexperienced first time buyers”. So I’m still no closer to understanding how much of a big deal it is.

I’ve had an offer accepted on a two bed terraced house, built around 1880. It has been recent renovated to a (supposedly) high standard, and for this reason was top of the price range for similar houses in the area. Definitely not a fixer-upper kind of vibe. 

I knew the attic room was clearly not building regs compliant. It was being used as a bedroom but hadn’t been listed as one on the advert, plus doesn’t have a proper door.

The survey found a lot of other issues.

At some point, definitely more than five years ago, a load bearing wall has been removed between the kitchen and the dining area. The survey noted that there is an RSJ in place and mentioned that there was no obvious evidence of structural issues, but advised that it should have had building regs sign off. It does not have building regs sign off. The current owners, who bought the house more than 5 years ago, said it was in place when they purchased and do not know when it was done.

The survey also noted that the unofficial attic non-bedroom should have been supported with an RSJ or some kind of reinforcement of the floor, but there is no evidence of this. It looks pretty good, with radiators, electrics, flooring, insulation, windows, staircase (though no proper door). I was happy to accept that it can’t be counted as a proper bedroom and sellers were upfront about this, but I’m a little alarmed by lack of support to the floor. Again this is more than 5 years old and nobody knows when it was actually done. No obvious cracks or movement on survey. A lot of the houses I’ve viewed around here had a very unofficial looking attic room, so I’m not super worried about this, it’s more the other stuff that bothers me.

A shower room has been installed in the basement of the house. This also does not have building regs approval. It's not exactly a basement, but rather one of those houses where street level at the front is one story higher than the garden level at the back. So only one wall is technically underground. Looking at the last time the house was sold in 2016, this room was previously listed as a “utility” so it's possible it did previously have plumbing. It looks fine, though the surveyor noted that the extractor fan was not adequate and would need upgrading.

As part of the conversion to shower room, the basement area has also had damp proofing done by current owners. Surveyor states this should have some kind of guarantee that it was done according to specific regulations. It doesn’t. No signs of damp on survey.

Windows don’t have FENSA certification but unclear how old they are and having Googled it I am not sure I care about this, to be honest.

The current owners also had a log burner installed. Again, it looked good. I asked for HETAS certification. They don’t have it. Also no building regs sign off.

At this point, as you can imagine, I am becoming suspicious about why literally nothing in this house has building regs approval or has been done to any kind of standard. The current owners apparently had £50k worth of work done including new kitchens and bathrooms etc, but don’t seem to be able to produce a single piece of paperwork relating to any of it.

I also haven’t seen any documentation about the new boiler, though they state that they sent it to the solicitor and it hasn’t been passed on to me, so my investigation into this one is still ongoing. 

There is also an issue with the roof. Survey says roof slates / pointing needs some work and risk of hidden damp behind insulation boards in attic room. Got assessment from roofer, thinks no signs hidden damp and risk low (but no way to tell for sure without dismantling part of walls or roof). Quoted me £6500-ish for re-slating and other roof repairs. Sellers said this not needed, willing to reduce price by only £3000.

Regarding the building regs stuff, they have got the standard indemnity policy against council enforcement, which isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

I am going to ask for the woodburner to be serviced by a HETAS engineer and boiler to be serviced, if they are unable to produce the paperwork for this.

The other building regs stuff… I’m struggling to get my head around how much it matters.

If I do go ahead and buy this property, is there any chance of trying to get a retrospective certificate of building regs approval for the shower room and the potentially very historical removal of the internal wall? Or is that just opening up a can or worms?

Will all these things not done to building regulations affect my home insurance? For example, if there was a leak from the basement bathroom or a fire from the woodburner, would the fact they never had building regs sign off invalidate any claim?

Are houses with these issues difficult to get a mortgage on? I am a cash buyer with money inherited from a relative, but worried that if I come to sell this house, buyers needing a mortgage might have issues.

I’m quite prepared to walk away from this purchase as I don’t desperately need to move right now, but as most of the housing stock around here is >100 year old terraces (aside from bleak new builds that I’m not interested in) I’m just wondering whether if I back out of this one, I'm likely to run into similar problems elsewhere.

It’s just really hard to get perspective on this stuff when you’re a first time buyer and have never done this before. 

Thrugelmir

Houses are like buses. There'll be another one along in a minute. If you feel uncomfortable walk away. You've learnt from the experience and in the future will put this knowledge to good use. There's plenty of DIY property developers who make the property look extremely appealing but attempt to conceal their shortcomings. 

canaldumidi

JM321 said:

Hello!

.....renovated visually/superficially to a (supposedly) high standard , and for this reason was top of the price range for similar houses in the area. Definitely not a fixer-upper kind of vibe. 

...

At some point, definitely more than five years ago, a load bearing wall has been removed between the kitchen and the dining area. The survey noted that there is an RSJ in place and mentioned that there was no obvious evidence of structural issues, but advised that it should have had building regs sign off. It does not have building regs sign off. The current owners, who bought the house more than 5 years ago, said it was in place when they purchased and do not know when it was done. Sounds like it will not fall down (or would have alredy)

The survey also noted that the unofficial attic non-bedroom should have been supported with an RSJ or some kind of reinforcement of the floor, but there is no evidence of this. It looks pretty good, with radiators, electrics, flooring, insulation, windows, staircase (though no proper door). I was happy to accept that it can’t be counted as a proper bedroom and sellers were upfront about this, but I’m a little alarmed by lack of support to the floor. Again this is more than 5 years old and nobody knows when it was actually done. No obvious cracks or movement on survey. A lot of the houses I’ve viewed around here had a very unofficial looking attic room, so I’m not super worried about this, it’s more the other stuff that bothers me. More worying. You can't be sure, but if the floor is not re-inforced you should avoid putting weight n the floor: beds, wardobes, other furniture, bookcases with books etc. Attic floors were not designed to be weight bearing.

A shower room has been installed in the basement of the house. This also does not have building regs approval. It's not exactly a basement, but rather one of those houses where street level at the front is one story higher than the garden level at the back. So only one wall is technically underground. Looking at the last time the house was sold in 2016, this room was previously listed as a “utility” so it's possible it did previously have plumbing. It looks fine, though the surveyor noted that the extractor fan was not adequate and would need upgrading.Potential issue is damp from the wall built against the soil (street). It should have been properly 'tanked' to prevent water penetration. Extractor fan is insignificant.

As part of the conversion to shower room, the basement area has also had damp proofing done by current owners. Surveyor states this should have some kind of guarantee that it was done according to specific regulations. It doesn’t. No signs of damp on survey. Ah! I commented above before reading on! Same response though. How long ago was this done- damp can take time to penetrate and become apparant. If the damp proofing does prove insufficiant, and there's no guarante, it could be expensive to fix

Windows don’t have FENSA certification but unclear how old they are and having Googled it I am not sure I care about this, to be honest. Most issues are about insulation level. Might not be as efficiet as 'approved' windows.

The current owners also had a log burner installed. Again, it looked good. I asked for HETAS certification. They don’t have it. Also no building regs sign off. Risk it works poorly? Smoke blow-back? internal build-up of smoke damage to chimney? I'm no burner expert.

At this point, as you can imagine, I am becoming suspicious about why literally nothing in this house has building regs approval or has been done to any kind of standard. The current owners apparently had £50k worth of work done including new kitchens and bathrooms etc, but don’t seem to be able to produce a single piece of paperwork relating to any of it. It's easy to spend £50K on fancy kitchens, bathrooms, redecorations etc. No Building Regs rings alarm bells. No receipts or garantees from installers suggests.... cowboys?

I also haven’t seen any documentation about the new boiler, though they state that they sent it to the solicitor and it hasn’t been passed on to me, so my investigation into this one is still ongoing. Could it be all the paperwork is with the solicitor? Or en route?

There is also an issue with the roof. Survey says roof slates / pointing needs some work and risk of hidden damp behind insulation boards in attic room. Got assessment from roofer, thinks no signs hidden damp and risk low (but no way to tell for sure without dismantling part of walls or roof). Quoted me £6500-ish for re-slating and other roof repairs. Sellers said this not needed, willing to reduce price by only £3000. £6500 could re-roof completely I'd have thought. How extensive is the required pointing and how many tiles 'need some work?

Regarding the building regs stuff, they have got the standard indemnity policy against council enforcement, which isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. Correct

I am going to ask for the woodburner to be serviced by a HETAS engineer and boiler to be serviced, if they are unable to produce the paperwork for this. OK. What will you do if they say no? Would it also be safer to use your own contractors (not their choice) and get the report sent to you, not the seller?

..

If I do go ahead and buy this property, is there any chance of trying to get a retrospective certificate of building regs approval for the shower room and the potentially very historical removal of the internal wall? Or is that just opening up a can or worms? Can of worms. In order to do this the council will need to rip out walls to look behind for damp proofing, structural beams, insulation etc! And if they find non-compliance the seller will have a nightmare job upgrading so..... will not thank you! It will also invalidare the (admitedly pointless) insurance.

Will all these things not done to building regulations affect my home insurance? For example, if there was a leak from the basement bathroom or a fire from the woodburner, would the fact they never had building regs sign off invalidate any claim? No.

Are houses with these issues difficult to get a mortgage on? I am a cash buyer with money inherited from a relative, but worried that if I come to sell this house, buyers needing a mortgage might have issues. A future buyer might have the same concerns, as might his mortgage lender(though less so). As time passes, it becomes increasingly les relevant.

I’m quite prepared to walk away from this purchase as I don’t desperately need to move right now, but as most of the housing stock around here is >100 year old terraces (aside from bleak new builds that I’m not interested in) I’m just wondering whether if I back out of this one, I'm likely to run into similar problems elsewhere.  Possibly. In my view there are 3 types of owner. 1) those who do everything by the book 2) those who the odd small job themselves or a small handyman/local contractor and jst don't bother with B Regs. c) those who do major works and keep the costs down by cutting corners 4) those who do major jobs but are pig-ignorant and use contractors who are oterwise professional but hatedealing with the officials and don't bother and don't advise their clients.

There are 2 potential isues

1) the council will enforce Building Regs and either make you remove non compliant work, or upgrade it to the proper standard. They have 12 months from completion of the work to do this. Hence as you pointed out insurance against this is pointless after 12 months.

2) the work is potentially poor quality and will a) be cold (no insulation), fall down (poorly constructed), or have some other detrimental effect

Only you can ecide which category you think these sellers fall into, and what degree of risk you are willing to take on.

(and yes, maths is one of my weak points)

JM321

Thanks. This is the direction I'm learning towards at the moment. For what it's worth, I met the sellers when I viewed the house, they definitely aren't property developers, this was their first and only house, they did it up nicely to live in and then had a legit reason to move after 5 years or so. I think they just didn't appreciate the significance of this stuff. I agree with the point you're making though. I'm just trying to work out if this is an average, or worse than average, amount of survey disaster for a house of this age and type. 

canaldumidi

The attic and bathroom are the concern given the risk of significant cost or danger should the floor/damp wall become an issue.

Crashy_Time

Thrugelmir said:

Houses are like buses. There'll be another one along in a minute. If you feel uncomfortable walk away. You've learnt from the experience and in the future will put this knowledge to good use. There's plenty of DIY property developers who make the property look extremely appealing but attempt to conceal their shortcomings. 

Exactly, and the fare on the next one could be cheaper.

Crashy_Time

canaldumidi said:

The attic and bathroom are the concern given the risk of significant cost or danger should the floor/damp wall become an issue.

Too risky.