why are energy companies pushing smart meters? what's the catch??

MWT

wild666 said:

YorksLass said:

Energy companies have been set targets by the Government to install smart meters in customer homes; failure to reach the set targets results in the energy companies receiving a fine.  Hence the reason why you are bombarded with phone calls, emails and letters.

Difficult to see how they could become compulsory though - we (reluctantly) agreed to have one fitted (condition of fixed price plan) but when the engineer came it was physically impossible for him to isolate the mains supply so he was not able not install one.  Block of maisonettes, pre-1960s build, council owned so it would be down to them to facilitate any necessary remedial action.  Because we had agreed in principle to have one, we still got the fixed price plan though.

If someone requests a smart meter and they are told it is not possible to fit one to receive a cheaper tariff then the supplier should be made to supply the electric/gas at that cheaper tariff.  

You will generally find that where a supplier has a tariff with a requirement to have a smart meter fitted once you are on the tariff then they will not move the customer off of that tariff if it is not actually possible to fit one.

There are other tariffs where having a smart meter is a prerequisite, and you cannot move onto the tariff until you have one installed and working, in those cases you cannot get onto it without meeting the requirement and that is not something you could insist on just because it isn't possible for you...

QrizB

aoleks said:

Thanks all, very comprehensive. Now one simple question:
shall I switch to smart meters now or simply wait until they’re made compulsory?

Well:

• If you want to switch to a smart tariff, you will need to have a smart meter.
• If your meter need replacing due to age or damage, you will be given a smart meter.
• If you want half-hourly metering or an IHD for your own information, the simplest way is to get a smart meter.

But just in general? No, there's no pressing need to change your meter.

[Deleted User]

aoleks said:

Thanks all, very comprehensive. Now one simple question:

shall I switch to smart meters now or simply wait until they’re made compulsory?

thanks

In future, price comparison websites will, with the homeowner’s approval, be able to access historical smart meter data. BEIS has already commissioned a tariff comparison tool that looks at both the amount of energy used and when it is used to enable consumers to choice the cheapest time-of-use tariff. If you don’t have a smart meter, then you will not have any historical usage data.

https://smarttariffsmartcomparison.org/home

Verdigris

I also think that the "traditional" off-peak tariffs, like Economy 7, which rely on time switches will not be available for very much longer. The "teleswitch" system is being turned off in a few years time and I don't think suppliers will tolerate electro-mechanical timers, which can be several hours adrift, for much longer, either.

I'm certain that TOU tariffs, sensibly used, will be the cheapest options in a market with fewer players and less competition. They will also help ensure the lights stay on, for everybody, even the smart meter conspiracy theorists.

wittynamegoeshere

I really don't see the issue with limiting the hours that a car charger can operate.  That seems like sensible planning, I'm sure if it wasn't done then the grid inevitably got overloaded the internet would be full of people saying the govt should have done this.  They really can't win.

Has anyone said what the actual catch with a smart meter is?

Is it possible that there really isn't one?  Or am I just part of the evil conspiracy??

IMO The big mistake with Smart Meters is that the govt promoted them as being a big deal when they really weren't.  They should have just called them new meters.  We didn't have all this nonsense when they changed from dials to digital displays, it's just progress.

I once had a meter reader tread dog excrement into my house.  That's the kind of intrusiveness I'm glad is now a thing of the past.

Verdigris

I really don't see the issue with limiting the hours that a car charger can operate.

It is not necessarily national/regional demand that is the problem, it is the physical limits of local infrastructure.

Imagine a cul-de-sac with, say, 20 houses, that have been quite adequately served by their supply cable since they were built. Now imagine them, in a few years time, where they all have at least one car to charge overnight. If they all started to charge on the stroke of "Octopus Go" the supply cable would probably melt! (or more hopefully blow a fuse/trip somewhere) Smart meters in an area are all connected by a WAN, so will be capable of sharing out the charging by putting a limit on the number of cars connected at once, but sharing it about until all are charged.

Or we could dig up and replace huge amounts of cabling just to meet short periods of peak loading.

Which is the more rational approach?

YorksLass

wild666 said

If someone requests a smart meter and they are told it is not possible to fit one to receive a cheaper tariff then the supplier should be made to supply the electric/gas at that cheaper tariff.  

MWT said

You will generally find that where a supplier has a tariff with a requirement to have a smart meter fitted once you are on the tariff then they will not move the customer off of that tariff if it is not actually possible to fit one.

There are other tariffs where having a smart meter is a prerequisite, and you cannot move onto the tariff until you have one installed and working, in those cases you cannot get onto it without meeting the requirement and that is not something you could insist on just because it isn't possible for you...

wild666: I think that's what currently happens.  Going forward, who knows?

MWT: Agree on your first point.  On the second point, you may well be right, although it could be deemed to be discriminatory - after all, it isn't your fault if your property isn't able to receive a smart meter.  We don't all live in new-build houses.  Just saying.

Water meters are a similar thing.  We asked for one but again not possible due to type of build.  In this instance, we now have an assessed bill (i.e. we are billed as if we did have one and our water usage is assessed on what the water company thinks we likely use - two people in a flat).  Perhaps not as cheap as having a meter but still saves us around £20-£25 per month.

A couple more thoughts - do smart meters work with heat source pumps (apparently the way forward) and will heat source pumps be suitable for flat dwellers?

MWT

YorksLass said:

MWT: Agree on your first point.  On the second point, you may well be right, although it could be deemed to be discriminatory - after all, it isn't your fault if your property isn't able to receive a smart meter.  We don't all live in new-build houses.  Just saying.

To the best of my knowledge there is no law preventing discrimination based on having a smart meter, or needing an EV, or any of the other prerequisites that may exist on specialised tariffs...

There is no specific right to be able to get any tariff you may want, but you do have a protected right to get the Standard Variable Tariff if you want it.

wittynamegoeshere

I think I'll stick to worrying about the problems that are actually mine to control and deal with and leave the rest.  If the grid becomes overloaded that's someone else's problem that they're probably already paid a massive salary to take care of.

Is the main problem in the modern world that people have such easy lives that they're just short of things to worry about?

MWT

Verdigris said:

Smart meters in an area are all connected by a WAN, so will be capable of sharing out the charging by putting a limit on the number of cars connected at once, but sharing it about until all are charged.

As I mentioned earlier, the ability to control or limit car charging is not a smart meter function, it is a proposed to make it a smart charger capability.

Similarly, although the smart meters do have a WAN connection, it is not a real-time link and data has to be requested from each meter, typically once a day, so it is not well suited to any sort of autonomous local area load-balancing anyway.