why are energy companies pushing smart meters? what's the catch??

Verdigris

Phew! Gerry just had the day off. I was beginning to worry about his health.

Gerry1

wittynamegoeshere said:

Currently, to stop your car charging they'd need to cut you off completely, so you wouldn't be watching TV or making a cuppa.

You're seriously out of date.  As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be "smart" chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm.

https://insideevs.com/news/537120/ev-chargers-switched-off-uk/

Another example of 'The Computer Says NO' interfering in our lives.

MWT

Gerry1 said:

MWT said:

Astria said:

This means that in the future, high power devices such as charging vehicles can be forced to turn off during periods of high load on the network (eg, during periods of TV commercials when everyone decides to switch the kettle on).

That part is dependent on smart charging devices, not the smart meter.

WRONG !

Load Limiting and Load Shedding was built into the specification right from the start.  It's all part of the Demand Side Response (DSR) strategy that's the real driver of the Smart Meters project.

Even the old SMETS1 electricity meters have the Load Limiting Capability to switch supply off (or increment a counter) when an ‘instantaneous use’ threshold is crossed. 

Fortunately you contradict yourself and give the correct answer in your post a little later

Gerry1 said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

Currently, to stop your car charging they'd need to cut you off completely, so you wouldn't be watching TV or making a cuppa.

You're seriously out of date.  As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be "smart" chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm.

https://insideevs.com/news/537120/ev-chargers-switched-off-uk/

Another example of 'The Computer Says NO' interfering in our lives.

Limiting car charging by time of day requires a compliant smart charger, it is not a meter function or part of the load shedding/load limiting capability.

Gerry1

MWT said:

Gerry1 said:

MWT said:

Astria said:

This means that in the future, high power devices such as charging vehicles can be forced to turn off during periods of high load on the network (eg, during periods of TV commercials when everyone decides to switch the kettle on).

That part is dependent on smart charging devices, not the smart meter.

WRONG !

Load Limiting and Load Shedding was built into the specification right from the start.  It's all part of the Demand Side Response (DSR) strategy that's the real driver of the Smart Meters project.

Even the old SMETS1 electricity meters have the Load Limiting Capability to switch supply off (or increment a counter) when an ‘instantaneous use’ threshold is crossed. 

Fortunately you contradict yourself and give the correct answer in your post a little later

Second link was the same as the first, now corrected.

Gerry1 said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

Currently, to stop your car charging they'd need to cut you off completely, so you wouldn't be watching TV or making a cuppa.

You're seriously out of date.  As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be "smart" chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm.

https://insideevs.com/news/537120/ev-chargers-switched-off-uk/

Another example of 'The Computer Says NO' interfering in our lives.

Limiting car charging by time of day requires a compliant smart charger, it is not a meter function or part of the load shedding/load limiting capability.

Yup, just as the article says...

QrizB

wittynamegoeshere said:

That sort of cleverness would require that all our second generation meters are replaced with new ones that have off-peak only outlets.  This would have been a good idea, but it hasn't happened.  Currently, to stop your car charging they'd need to cut you off completely, so you wouldn't be watching TV or making a cuppa.

The way it's done in eg. France is that you agree your peak load and get a tariff based around that.

Just as an example, you might find a choice of:

• 2kW max supply at 18p/kWh
• 5kW max supply at 21p/kWh
• 10kW max supply at 24p/kWh

You could even find that you're offered a higher load at off-peak times provided you agree to a lower limit the rest of the time. If you exceed your limit, the meter tells puts up a warning on your IHD. If you don't reduce the load it cuts off your supply.

This is an option in other countries but hasn't made an appearance here yet.

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

You're seriously out of date.  As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be "smart" chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm.

https://insideevs.com/news/537120/ev-chargers-switched-off-uk/

Another example of 'The Computer Says NO' interfering in our lives.

"Proposed law" isn't law. I can't find any evidence of a Bill yet, or a draft SI.

"Installed" makes me think plug-in chargers won't be affected.

And since EVSE is an open standard, there's nothing stopping you from buying or building one that doesn't include any smart features.

savers_united

The energy suppliers have been set targets on smart meter installs, hence the calls. 

Even though they are not compulsory there will be other ways in the future to bribe most households to move to a smart meter.

Cheaper tariffs being the obvious carrot, but also limiting non smart tariffs to a variable tariff and all fixes needing a smart meter will in most cases mean having to accept a smart meter. As more people move to EV's then smart meters and tariffs will be needed in order to get the cheapest off peak rates. 

I personally don't see any issue with them, and struggle to understand people's resistance to having one fitted. 

Those who don't give regular meter readings are the biggest winners as no more estimated bills, which should reduce debt / credit. 

Access to a wider range of tariffs is another advantage. 

The only people I guess who would be resisting an install are those who are maybe wanting to hide something, I have known of people to over read their meter to stay on a lower tariff rate for longer, practices like that are not possible with smart meters that submit regular readings. 

[Deleted User]

It is worth bearing in mind that for years consumers have paid to have power generating stations on standby on a just in case basis. Knowing that each home will use XkWhs/year is not very useful when it comes to synchronising  an electrical Grid for both voltage and frequency. The profiling of usage in 30 minute chunks will allow Grid operators to see with much greater clarity when energy is being used. Ofgem is currently consulting on making 30 minute data the default consumer smart meter profile. 

aoleks

Thanks all, very comprehensive. Now one simple question:

shall I switch to smart meters now or simply wait until they’re made compulsory?

thanks

wild666

YorksLass said:

Energy companies have been set targets by the Government to install smart meters in customer homes; failure to reach the set targets results in the energy companies receiving a fine.  Hence the reason why you are bombarded with phone calls, emails and letters.

Difficult to see how they could become compulsory though - we (reluctantly) agreed to have one fitted (condition of fixed price plan) but when the engineer came it was physically impossible for him to isolate the mains supply so he was not able not install one.  Block of maisonettes, pre-1960s build, council owned so it would be down to them to facilitate any necessary remedial action.  Because we had agreed in principle to have one, we still got the fixed price plan though.

If someone requests a smart meter and they are told it is not possible to fit one to receive a cheaper tariff then the supplier should be made to supply the electric/gas at that cheaper tariff.