Accused of fly tipping, no evidence provided

downshifted

I have been accused of fly tipping. They told me where but not what had led to the accusation. In reply I wrote the following

I have never knowingly dumped rubbish and I would like to ask what has been dumped and exactly where? I presume you have photographs and I would like to see them please.

I am aware that the day quoted is the same day as our paper and cardboard collection and can only imagine some connection with that

in response they have said

If you wish you may come in for an interveiw under caution to see the evidence i have. (direct copy)

It doesn’t seem like natural justice to me to have to be interviewed under caution to see what I’m accused of. Surely they should show me? Fly tipping suggests something large, the location is about 3/4 of a mile from my home. 

I’ve seen other questions about this on here, but normally evidence seems to have been provided

Interview under caution sounds frightening, I’ve never broken a law yet, don’t even have speeding or parking fines I’m so boring!

Any advice please?

canaldumidi

Have they actually asked you to pay a fine? Usually they interview under caution before doing that.

Have you recently had any waste removed on your behalf eg by a contractor doing work at the property?

If you DO decide to go in to see their evidence, simply say at the start that you will not be commenting until you've a) seen the evidence and then b) taken legal advice. Then answer all questions "No comment at this time."

At least then you'll get to see what they have without getting drawn into discussion where you might inadvertantly incriminate yourself.

GDB2222

You refer to 'they'. Is that the local authority? 

The position is that they have accused you, you have denied wrongdoing, and they appear to be leaving it at that. If so, let sleeping dogs lie. 

Don’t go for an interview. You will never prove your innocence to their satisfaction. You will never get a satisfactory apology. 

If you must do something, make a formal complaint that you have been unjustly accused. You will get a response saying that their actions were entirely appropriate.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

From what I understand, which shouldn't be taken as legal advice, the interview under caution is a opportunity for them to prove your guilt rather than for you to prove your innocence.

They are gathering evidence and hope you will say something to incriminate yourself. 

You shouldn't say anything at all to anyone at this stage. If you do find yourself discussing the matter with anyone you should have legal representation present.

Ultimately is down to them to prove you have committed an offence and not for you to prove your innocence, if they had the evidence they require they would be prosecuting you rather than wanting to talk about the situation.  

A lot of advice sites will suggest you should attend, that advice may very well not be in your best interest. 

If the matter concerns you then seek proper independent professional legal advice. 

Whatever you do, do not assuming the council are acting in your interest. 

downshifted

Just to add, I have not paid anyone to dump anything either

downshifted

Thank you for your prompt replies. To clarify the first contact was a letter from a street scene enforcement officer of the council asking me to pay a fixed penalty fine of £400, or face prosecution. I have 15 days to pay. It says “Your waste was found on x road” 

I immediately wrote for more info as above and they now say it was on the junction of x road and y road, but they have not said what it is.

I don’t agree with fly tipping, I’m more likely to complain about it than do it, but I haven’t done this nor have I paid anyone to dispose of rubbish. 

It seems so unfair they can prosecute if I don’t pay the fine without telling me what I’m supposed to have dumped without going to an interview under caution.

GDB2222

With parking fixed penalties, they always show people the photographic evidence. I don't see why this should be different.

If I were in your position, I'd refuse to pay a fixed penalty notice for something I had not done. 

You might follow @canaldumidi 's suggestion:
"If you DO decide to go in to see their evidence, simply say at the start that you will not be commenting until you've a) seen the evidence and then b) taken legal advice. Then answer all questions "No comment at this time."

At least then you'll get to see what they have without getting drawn into discussion where you might inadvertantly incriminate yourself."

I don't know much about fly-tipping law. Is it enough for them to prove that your rubbish is on the street, or do they need to prove brd that you put it there?

downshifted

I’ve just phoned a local solicitor, they want £250 for a phone consultation!

emmajones1976

A few firms will offer free walk-in consultations, always worth having a dig around your local area.

Bendy_House

No LegProt on your Household Insurance?

Section62

downshifted said:

It doesn’t seem like natural justice to me to have to be interviewed under caution to see what I’m accused of. Surely they should show me? Fly tipping suggests something large, the location is about 3/4 of a mile from my home. 

The "under caution" part is a requirement of PACE.  Fly tipping is a criminal offence (and the amount doesn't have to be particularly large) so anyone undertaking an investigation is obliged to follow the requirements of PACE - which require a person being interviewed to be "cautioned" (i.e. informed of their rights)

If the investigating officers need to have face to face contact with you to show you the evidence then it would be unwise of them to do so in any way other than via an interview under caution.


That's not to say I would recommend you go (you need professional legal advice about that) nor do I think it is a good way for situations like this to be investigated. IMV the council should always obtain and be willing to provide photographic evidence on request - and to do so via electronic means or through the post, not via interview.

Sometimes though there may not be photographic evidence of the flytip in-situ - for example if a landowner bags up the material and takes it to the LA to report the material has been dumped on their land.  In which case the 'evidence' consists only of those items - which might lead to the suggestion the person suspected of dumping them would need to view the items in person.

Either follow the suggestion made by canaldumidi, or else get professional legal advice.  Whatever you do, don't ignore it and hope the council will forget.