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Is this legal? I feel so deflated.

24

Comments

  • Alderbank
    Alderbank Posts: 4,044 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    OP if you plan to return it you need to act quickly to be within the 14 day window. The clock is ticking.

  • I wonder if this is one of those occasions where a "hard luck" (sorry to use that phrase) story to a newspaper would pay dividends?

    Also, might a relevant disabled charity be able to exert some pressure on the OP's behalf?

    I also have autism so the newspaper thing would just be too much for my anxieties to take. 
  • Alderbank said:
    OP if you plan to return it you need to act quickly to be within the 14 day window. The clock is ticking.
    I'm scared to return it because of the added wear and tear fee that will only be decided once it's back. I could end up with no item and no money.
    £350 is a huge amount of money to me to end up with nothing left from. 
  • Alderbank
    Alderbank Posts: 4,044 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 16 November 2021 at 4:34PM
    Livewell don't want to be too explicit and cause offence to their customers but 'wear and tear' is their euphemism for incontinence. Most of Livewell's customers are disabled and sadly many of them will be incontinent. Returns of mattresses, chairs, beds, etc. which are unsaleable (and very unpleasant for their staff) are a constant problem for these companies.

    I think you would be fine.

    Edited to add: think about it. What other sort of 'wear and tear' would there be on a two-day-old chair?
  • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head Posts: 9,487 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 16 November 2021 at 4:42PM
    OP the important question is what information did they give you via durable means (on paper with the goods or by email) regarding the right to cancel?

    As in specifically and all of it :) (copy and paste or photo of paperwork). 

    Their website states 14 days from the day of receipt but this one day short, if the durable information matches I don't believe they can charge anything for handling and diminished value (which is what they mean by wear & tear).

    If the durable information details the return costs these may very well be fair and due. 
    In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces
  • I don't know what you mean. I didn't get anything except the chair, an instruction manual and a delivery docket. 
  • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head Posts: 9,487 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 16 November 2021 at 4:41PM
    I don't know what you mean. I didn't get anything except the chair, an instruction manual and a delivery docket. 
    What did the order confirmation and/or dispatch emails says about your right to cancel or return the goods? 
    In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces
  • It didn't mention anything to do with it. 
  • It didn't mention anything to do with it. 
    If you are sure of that then advise them you are cancelling your contract (ideally within their 14 day timeframe for ease), have them collect the chair and issue whatever refund they feel is correct.

    Then point out that the minimum cancellation period is 14 days beginning the day after you received the goods, the information on the right to cancel must be given via durable means and if this doesn't occur they can not reduce the refund for use/wear and tear. 

    That if they wish the consumer to bear the cost of return this must also be provided via durable means along with the detail of the £90 fee for collecting the goods and as this hasn't occurred they are to bear the cost of return. 

    If they disagree then it's a case of letter before action and small claims. 

    The above is assuming ordered at a distance (from their website or over the phone) and I would double check your emails to ensure nothing was included detailing the right to cancel. 

    Legal jargon below: 

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/30/made

    (3) If the contract is a sales contract and none of paragraphs (4) to (6) applies, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the goods come into the physical possession of—

    (a)the consumer, or

    (b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.



    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34/made

    (9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.

    (11) Paragraph (9) does not apply if the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/2/made

    (l)where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38;

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/10/made

    Information to be provided before making an off-premises contract
    10.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by an off-premises contract, the trader—

    (a)must give the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner, and
    (b)if a right to cancel exists, must give the consumer a cancellation form as set out in part B of Schedule 3.
    (2) The information and any cancellation form must be given on paper or, if the consumer agrees, on another durable medium and must be legible.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/35/made

    (5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless

    (a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

    (b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

    (m)where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods;

    In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces
  • Thank you very much for your in depth reply but I'm struggling to understand it. As well as my physical disabilities, I also have autism so I'm not very good at understanding all of what you said, plus I don't think my nerves and anxieties could deal with courts and such.

    After reading all of your replies, and I am grateful of them all, I think I will just have to keep the chair and hope to maybe find someone willing to buy it from me.

    Thank you all. 
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