Change Holiday or press harder for a refund?

paul9619

We are currently due to travel to New York with TUI in December with two fully vaccinated adults and one 15yo with a single Covid vaccination.

However, as it stands there seems to be no official mechanism in the UK for U16's to get proof of vaccination.  They cannot use the NHS Covid Pass app and they are also not entitled to a NHS Covid letter.

New York currently has the "Vaccine Key to New York" additional measures in place that essential says that my daughter must give proof of at least one vaccination to eat indoors in any restaurants and also to visit any indoor tourist attractions.

Therefore, without any vaccine proof for my daughter the holiday is going to be very limiting and certainly not what we envisaged when booking.

TUI have a stance that they will amend the holiday for free up to 28 days before (that's in 6 days time for us) but they will not cancel and offer a refund.

The issues are have are:

1.  I cannot rebook a comparable holiday for Christmas in NY in 2022 as their website does not offer holidays that far in advance for NY and they will not be online within the time I have to amend.

2. As part of the original holiday we have breakfast included within the hotel.  However, after emailing the hotel they would need my daughter to give official proof of vaccine to allow her in the restaurant.  Therefore, she would be unable to have the included breakfast.

So what do people think?  Is there a case to push TUI for a refund rather than settling for an amended holiday that we do not want?  Surely the fact that the UK currently offers no official vaccine proof for U16's should have some bearing on TUI?

emmajones1976

Option 3 - leave her at home

To play devils advocate here, it isnt TUI's fault that this situation has arisen either.   Have you spoken to her GP to see if a printout can be provided? Your issue here though remains it may not be accepted abroad.
Holland (as an example) requires anyone not vaccinated to have daily covid tests (free) with results in less than 30 mins in order to access places, is this not something NY state offers also?

paul9619

Hi Emma, no unfortunately they are not offering the testing scenario and you are right we could get a printout from the GP but the information is vague and is certainly not an official method so it would be a risk.  I am tracking other travel forums and I cannot seem to get confirmation of anyone being successful with this method (no one has confirmed or denied)

Sandtree

Have you worked out how this will work for yourselves? Looking at the NYC government website it has a list of options for proof of vaccination almost all either require a CDC card or NYC vaccination. 

NYC Covid Safe app is the only one that seems possibly applicable but all it does is stores photos locally, it doesnt in any way "approve" what you've taken a photo of to confirm its acceptable. 

According to the FAQ: Key-to-NYC-FAQ.pdf
Sufficient proof may be demonstrated by displaying:
• A photo or hard copy of their CDC vaccination card
• NYC COVID Safe App
• New York State Excelsior App
• CLEAR’s Digital Vaccine Card, CLEAR Health Pass
• Official vaccine record
• A photo or hard copy of an official vaccination record of a vaccine administered outside the United States for one of the following vaccines1 :
AstraZeneca/SK Bioscience, Serum Institute of India/COVISHIELD and Vaxzevria, Sinopharm, or Sinovac.

What information do international vaccination cards need to include?
Proof of vaccination for vaccines administered outside the U.S. may be demonstrated by an official immunization record that includes all of the following:
• First name and last name
 • Date of birth
• Vaccine product name (ex: AstraZeneca/SK Bioscience)
• Date(s) administered
• Site where the vaccine was administered or person who administered the vaccine o For people vaccinated outside of the U.S., the country of origin may be listed as the site where the vaccine was administered

So basically its the doorman at each restaurant etc that is going to be making the decision as if to accept your proofs not some informed official.

Having seen that the "CDC vaccination card" looks very similar to the cards they gave out in the UK for the vaccination I would be surprised if the average restaurant worker wouldnt accept a photo of that assuming you have the one for your 15yo. If you dont have one then maybe a conversation with your GP could get one.

If that fails, presumably you could reschedule your holiday until some random date in the mid future and then as soon as Xmas 2022 is released in Q1 next year then reschedule again to your preferred dates.

emmajones1976

Sandtree said:

Have you worked out how this will work for yourselves? Looking at the NYC government website it has a list of options for proof of vaccination almost all either require a CDC card or NYC vaccination. 

NYC Covid Safe app is the only one that seems possibly applicable but all it does is stores photos locally, it doesnt in any way "approve" what you've taken a photo of to confirm its acceptable. 

According to the FAQ: Key-to-NYC-FAQ.pdf
Sufficient proof may be demonstrated by displaying:
• A photo or hard copy of their CDC vaccination card
• NYC COVID Safe App
• New York State Excelsior App
• CLEAR’s Digital Vaccine Card, CLEAR Health Pass
• Official vaccine record
• A photo or hard copy of an official vaccination record of a vaccine administered outside the United States for one of the following vaccines1 :
AstraZeneca/SK Bioscience, Serum Institute of India/COVISHIELD and Vaxzevria, Sinopharm, or Sinovac.

Surely the last one in bold is perfectly easy for a British adult to sort out. Anyway, we digress from the main point.

Sandtree

emmajones1976 said:

Sandtree said:

Have you worked out how this will work for yourselves? Looking at the NYC government website it has a list of options for proof of vaccination almost all either require a CDC card or NYC vaccination. 

NYC Covid Safe app is the only one that seems possibly applicable but all it does is stores photos locally, it doesnt in any way "approve" what you've taken a photo of to confirm its acceptable. 

According to the FAQ: Key-to-NYC-FAQ.pdf
Sufficient proof may be demonstrated by displaying:
• A photo or hard copy of their CDC vaccination card
• NYC COVID Safe App
• New York State Excelsior App
• CLEAR’s Digital Vaccine Card, CLEAR Health Pass
• Official vaccine record
• A photo or hard copy of an official vaccination record of a vaccine administered outside the United States for one of the following vaccines1 :
AstraZeneca/SK Bioscience, Serum Institute of India/COVISHIELD and Vaxzevria, Sinopharm, or Sinovac.

Surely the last one in bold is perfectly easy for a British adult to sort out. Anyway, we digress from the main point.

My point was that a UK Vaccine Card that looks fairly similar to a CDC Vaccine Card would most likely be accepted by the average member of staff in a restaurant for an U16 

paul9619

You are both missing a very key element taken from both the CDC site and mirrored on the UK Gov site:

All forms of COVID-19 status must have a personal identifier, at a minimum including full name and date of birth, that match the information on a passenger’s passport or other travel documents. It must also include the name of the official source issuing the record and the vaccine manufacturer and date(s) of vaccination.

The little card you get only has your name on it and not your DoB.  The GP printout does not have all the information required either.  Together they may be accepted but its no guarantee.  So as you rightly point out it is a risk.  Is it one worth taking?  Who knows!  I would have liked to have seen some recent first hand experiences to go off.

Westin

Some good replies and suggestions so far.

This really is not TUI's fault or issue.  They have offered a solution (flexible amendment) which is over and above what they need to do.  IMO they don't have to offer a refund. 

I think you just have to find a solution and make the best of the situation.  Suggestions above are good. Worse case on the breakfast conundrum is to take some food items back to your room if she was unable to join you in the hotel restaurant (although I suspect he will be once checked in as a guest to the hotel).

paul9619

Westin said:

Some good replies and suggestions so far.

This really is not TUI's fault or issue.  They have offered a solution (flexible amendment) which is over and above what they need to do.  IMO they don't have to offer a refund. 

I think you just have to find a solution and make the best of the situation.  Suggestions above are good. Worse case on the breakfast conundrum is to take some food items back to your room if she was unable to join you in the hotel restaurant (although I suspect he will be once checked in as a guest to the hotel).

Yes I agree, although not ideal I am sure there would be a mechanism to get the breakfast to the room if needed.  

I am slightly annoyed that the flexible amendment doesn't allow me to book the same holiday again for Christmas next year, so we are having to book a holiday we don't really want as a compromise.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that we have BA flights so they amendment also needs BA flights.

If I could get assurances that the proof would suffice then I would be more than happy to go, just concerned it will hamper our holiday enjoyment if the proof poses an issue.

lea2012

I would guess that your GP could include all the required details on a letter if asked? You will need to pay for the letter anyway but I'm sure they would be willing. 

If this isn't satisfactory for you then you'll have no option but to change it unfortunately as i don't think they will refund you for something beyond their control. 

Sandtree

paul9619 said:

The little card you get only has your name on it and not your DoB.  The GP printout does not have all the information required either.  Together they may be accepted but its no guarantee.  So as you rightly point out it is a risk.  Is it one worth taking?  Who knows!  I would have liked to have seen some recent first hand experiences to go off.

But the other point is that you get the app, which does nothing than hold 3 photos, and present the photos to the member of restaurant staff at the door to gain access. That person on the door decides if to let you in or not - the app doesnt say if the photos/evidence are acceptable or not.

Really, no matter what ID and/or covid proof you are using it is always going to be a gamble to a degree and in particular if its not a US issued item. The formal NHS pass doesnt include all the information the NYC local government says it must show and the local franchise MaccyD staff are not going to be able to easily read the QR code which does hold more info. 

Given the similarity between the UK and US cards I can see someone being more comfortable of accepting that than the NHS app card, especially as the first time as ever seen any of them... could knock up a NHS app card within seconds if you didnt have to worry about a readable QR code too.

I couldnt see any training materials on the NYC.gov website that enables a local family restaurant to show its staff what a valid official vaccination cert from the UK and Algeria looks like (let alone how to translate any non-english certs)