Survey reporting structural movement. What to do....??

Annemos

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/how-much-does-underpinning-cost#section-is-underpinning-necessary

Example of discussion

Annemos

And the Financial Ombudsman also looks at this type of thing with insurance claims. 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/insurance/home-buildings-insurance/subsidence-types-ground-movement

Underpinning

Underpinning is often seen as a permanent and effective way of stabilising but is only used in the most serious cases. Also, it would usually be considered preventative, which isn’t covered under the insurance policy.

In many cases, a building can be stabilised by other action, for example, by:

• repairing leaking drains
• removing vegetation
• removing other external causes
• providing additional strengthening

If you use a method other than underpinning, we’ll consider whether that method is adequate to stop the movement based on expert evidence.

weeg

warwick2001 said:

So, thanks to @Annemos , the superficial surface is 'Till, Devensian - Diamicton', and the bedrock is 'Penrith Sandstone Formation - Sandstone'. 

I have no idea what any of that means, but if there's a geologist out there.....help?? 

Till is a mixed bag - literally. Devensian-Diamicton is typically a sandy silty clay with cobbles and occaisional boulders. Which is practically speaking, meaningless. More helpfully, it's normally pretty sound, with decent bearing pressure and not particularly susceptable to tree roots.

I wouldn't make a call what's going on with that corner/ crack from the photos. If it's the ground, it's likely a drainage issue. Equally, I can see it being a tying issue. You're doing the right thing by getting a local SE to look.

In my experience people get scared by the wrong things. ( and my experience is I've been an SE for 20 years). Both Stuart45 and Section62 give good advice - I don't always agree with them, but that's the nature of a forum where we look at photos and work in different parts of the country. (So I know heehaw about, say chalk ground but I know my stuff on tenemants)

warwick2001

Got the SE report last night, made for some scary reading. This is the conclusion:






Basically, there are far too many unknowns to continue with the purchase of this house.

On a personal level I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread, the advice was taken on board, and has proven to be very valuable (possibly saving me a £117k headache!!). And whilst the outcome wasn't what we wanted, I have learned a fair deal in this failed purchase. 

Section62

warwick2001 said:

Got the SE report last night, made for some scary reading. This is the conclusion:

Basically, there are far too many unknowns to continue with the purchase of this house.

On a personal level I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread, the advice was taken on board, and has proven to be very valuable (possibly saving me a £117k headache!!). And whilst the outcome wasn't what we wanted, I have learned a fair deal in this failed purchase. 

Thanks for the feedback warwick2001.  That report makes painful reading, I think you are doing the right thing moving on, but I hope that someone is in a position to buy that property and give it the care it so obviously needs.

The second paragraph is the one dealing with the crack on the front wall, and seems to confirm the points made by stuart45 and myself that the probable cause is a lack of restraint allowing the gable wall to move (horizontally) out, away from the rest of the house.  If that were the only defect then it is something which might be relatively easy to fix (e.g. by installing new restraints), but there is so much else going on that quite a bit more work is needed just to understand the full extent of the problems and how much it could cost to put them all right.

Also worth noting how cracking to the internal walls may be linked to loads from the roof - which emphasises the difficulty sometimes in working out whether internal walls are 'structural' or not.

And also, how having a family member being a builder doesn't mean that a property is free from defects, nor that defects have been dealt with in an appropriate manner.

Whatever you paid the previous people to have sight of their structural report was money well spent.  You were very fortunate in that!

Annemos

Oh my goodness. 

I fear it would all have been very difficult to cope with. 

But I am very happy that you have gained enough information about the property, to feel you are making the right decision and can move on. (No regrets.)

Section62

warwick2001 said:

And whilst the outcome wasn't what we wanted, I have learned a fair deal in this failed purchase. 

I was curious about a couple of points in the report so have had a look at the EA listing to try and work out what they meant.

I don't know whether the surveyor or SE picked it up, but there are two further areas of concern I would have had.

Firstly, (not clear from the floor plan) it looks like it is possible a doorway in a wall between the kitchen and dining areas has been opened up to make the area into a kitchen/diner.  It is possible this was how it was originally built, but given the issues with movement and cracking I would have wanted the wooden paneling covering the 'beam' over this opening to be removed so the SE could take a good look at what's going on there.  The 'beam' is unusually deep, which is why I'd be surprised if this were an original feature.

Secondly, (also not clear from the floor plan) there is a separate dwelling at the rear of the property, such that the one you were looking at is in the corner of an 'L'-shaped block.  The long passageway leading from the kitchen to outside has a party wall on the 'inside', and the neighbour's first floor rooms above.  The property is marketed as 'freehold', but it appears you would have a flying freehold situation of some kind.


The second point would have been the dealbreaker for me, as the complexity of who owns which part of the walls and the rooves is going to make sorting out the structural (and damp) issues that much harder.  Dealing with your own structural issues is one thing, getting a neighbour to deal with theirs at the same time is only something the very brave should consider.

Mistral001

A very good comprehensive report it would seem. 

warwick2001

Section62 said:

warwick2001 said:

And whilst the outcome wasn't what we wanted, I have learned a fair deal in this failed purchase. 

I was curious about a couple of points in the report so have had a look at the EA listing to try and work out what they meant.

I don't know whether the surveyor or SE picked it up, but there are two further areas of concern I would have had.

Firstly, (not clear from the floor plan) it looks like it is possible a doorway in a wall between the kitchen and dining areas has been opened up to make the area into a kitchen/diner.  It is possible this was how it was originally built, but given the issues with movement and cracking I would have wanted the wooden paneling covering the 'beam' over this opening to be removed so the SE could take a good look at what's going on there.  The 'beam' is unusually deep, which is why I'd be surprised if this were an original feature.

Secondly, (also not clear from the floor plan) there is a separate dwelling at the rear of the property, such that the one you were looking at is in the corner of an 'L'-shaped block.  The long passageway leading from the kitchen to outside has a party wall on the 'inside', and the neighbour's first floor rooms above.  The property is marketed as 'freehold', but it appears you would have a flying freehold situation of some kind.


The second point would have been the dealbreaker for me, as the complexity of who owns which part of the walls and the rooves is going to make sorting out the structural (and damp) issues that much harder.  Dealing with your own structural issues is one thing, getting a neighbour to deal with theirs at the same time is only something the very brave should consider.

To your first point, this was definitely an recent alteration whilst under the current vendor's ownership. He did say he opened up the area to create the kitchen/diner/living space, and apparently a metal structural beam was installed. Tbh I don't believe him given further investigations into the condition of the house (and other work he has stated he has/hasn't done - he claimed he hadn't touched the outer walls, but as the pictures show, there was absolutely some 'repair' work undertaken recently).

And yeah, there is definitely a flying freehold on the property on the alleyway, as it indeed runs under the house on the back of this property. That didn't bother me as much, as there is nothing that can be done about that, but again, maybe getting out of this property is a blessing in disguise.