ups numpties

visidigi

If the customer didnt collect. Then the duties at destination were still charged as the shipment cleared.

The shipper is ultimately liable for duties and taxes if they cannot be collected from the recipient (even if you declare so on the paperwork) as per here: https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/media/en_GB/terms_carriage_eur.pdf


5.2 If (a) UPS is required to pay any taxes, duties or levies on behalf of the shipper, receiver or a third party, (b) the selected billing option indicates that the receiver or a third party should pay any charges, or (c) any taxes, duties, penalties, charges or expenses are imposed, rightly or wrongly by government authorities, or incurred by UPS due to any circumstances, including any failure by the shipper or the receiver to provide correct information and documentation or any permits or licences required in connection with carriage, the shipper shall be jointly and severally liable to UPS with the receiver and such third parties for such amounts. In each case where the selected billing option indicates payment is to be charged, at first, to the receiver or any third party, UPS will (without prejudice to the shipper’s contractual liability for payment), first demand payment of the relevant amount from the receiver and/or the third party. If the amount in question is not immediately paid to UPS in full by any of the above parties, the amount will be payable by the shipper on first written demand. In any other cases, the shipper hereby undertakes to pay the mentioned amounts to UPS at first request. UPS shall not be obliged to separately file a claim against the receiver or any third party for payment. In case of doubt, the burden of proving that the amount has been paid lies on the shipper.

The fact HMRC say nothing is owed indicates either they can't see it, or they aren't from the UK, but another countries charges. UPS would convert the currency of destination back to GBP for the purposes of having the shipper settle required amounts.

If we know which country was involved it might help to determine if the amounts tally up for clearance into that country.

Autumn2021

I regularly ship overseas into Europe and the rest of the world . Since Brexit I have had a couple of orders returned to me undelivered.

• UPS have not charged me in the past, for similar. 
• Royal Mail do not charge either. 

After speaking to HMRC they explained that UPS appear to have  marked the return shipment incorrectly and that is why they are trying to charge me import duties. 

They clearly do not have the infrastructure in place to correct their errors, as they have sent me round in circles trying to resolve the issue and gain clarity.   I do not see why I should be financially disadvantaged because of it. 

Lastly, It makes no sense why I would be responsible for import duties.
The product belongs to me, was bought and paid for in the UK and all relevant taxes where paid at the point of sale.
The customer has not received their goods, so why would I be responsible for paying for something that has not been receive ? 

If UPS can point me to the terms and conditions and say that £65 relates to 'rip off fee hidden in small print' then I would take that on board and make a decision based on that, but I am absolutely not paying import duties on a product that already belongs to me. 

As it stands I now consider them to be beyond appalling in terms of customer service and  I will never be used their shoddy service again. 

Autumn2021

JJ_Egan said:

No standards agency covering business use of UPS .

So who do you report businesses with with shady and underhanded business practises to, would that be trading standards? 

user1977

Autumn2021 said:

JJ_Egan said:

No standards agency covering business use of UPS .

So who do you report businesses with with shady and underhanded business practises to, would that be trading standards? 

Trading Standards are for the protection of consumers' rights - businesses are generally expected to sort things out themselves.

You still haven't told us which country we're talking about - as explained above, the fact HMRC don't think they're involved seems a red herring, it would appear more likely to be duties charged at the destination. And as per the terms quoted above, they're entitled to recover those from you.

JJ_Egan

Autumn2021 said:

JJ_Egan said:

No standards agency covering business use of UPS .

So who do you report businesses with with shady and underhanded business practises to, would that be trading standards? 

As a business best route is through your company's solicitor .

As said  not a Consumer Right if its a business as such .

visidigi

Autumn2021 said:

I regularly ship overseas into Europe and the rest of the world . Since Brexit I have had a couple of orders returned to me undelivered.

• UPS have not charged me in the past, for similar. 
• Royal Mail do not charge either. 

After speaking to HMRC they explained that UPS appear to have  marked the return shipment incorrectly and that is why they are trying to charge me import duties. 

They clearly do not have the infrastructure in place to correct their errors, as they have sent me round in circles trying to resolve the issue and gain clarity.   I do not see why I should be financially disadvantaged because of it. 

Lastly, It makes no sense why I would be responsible for import duties.
The product belongs to me, was bought and paid for in the UK and all relevant taxes where paid at the point of sale.
The customer has not received their goods, so why would I be responsible for paying for something that has not been receive ? 

If UPS can point me to the terms and conditions and say that £65 relates to 'rip off fee hidden in small print' then I would take that on board and make a decision based on that, but I am absolutely not paying import duties on a product that already belongs to me. 

As it stands I now consider them to be beyond appalling in terms of customer service and  I will never be used their shoddy service again. 

Ah so HMRC can now tell you its owed because UPS got it wrong. Before they couldn't so I guess that's a start.

Yes, UPS have had 'issues' with Brexit based on what you read in the news and the complaints on here about them being unreachable (I can only go on what people say on here about that, no first-hand experience.

Unfortunately due to the UPS error the duties are owned before UPS will give the package back. So your complaint is that they have re-imported the goods (remember, they cleared wherever you sent them to) and therefore UPS should have done a controlled import, because they didn't HMRC see it as just a shipment being imported with no back history.

It MAY be easier for you to settle the UPS bill (minus disbursement) and then file the paperwork yourself with HMRC to prove what it wasn't due.

That's a suggestion, not a law, of course if you wish to have UPS address it they might, but it will take a heck of a lot longer...

Autumn2021

user1977 said:

Autumn2021 said:

JJ_Egan said:

No standards agency covering business use of UPS .

So who do you report businesses with with shady and underhanded business practises to, would that be trading standards? 

Trading Standards are for the protection of consumers' rights - businesses are generally expected to sort things out themselves.

You still haven't told us which country we're talking about - as explained above, the fact HMRC don't think they're involved seems a red herring, it would appear more likely to be duties charged at the destination. And as per the terms quoted above, they're entitled to recover those from you.

Why do you think that I should pay import duties on a product that belongs to me. 

Regardless of whatever it states UPS's terms and conditions, outside of brokerage fees or whatever else they want to call their 'fee's, I cannot see how they can claim to be recovering taxes when its not necessary.

Its like me as a UK seller writing in my terms an conditions that I will charge you a government tax that is not necessary on any  order that gets returned to me for my UK customers. I'm sure that HMRC would haul me over the coals for trying to pull a stunt like that, so not sure how UPS could get away with it. 

Autumn2021

Ah so HMRC can now tell you its owed because UPS got it wrong. Before they couldn't so I guess that's a start.
HMRC explained that they have likely incorrectly marked the return shipment, as goods purchased in Austria. They confirmed  no import duties are owing on a returned parcel. That makes the most sense to me. 

Anyway I am going to just leave this one now, as its just winding me up now. 
Thanks for advice everyone.