£12 over limit fee for going 73p over for 2 days

[Deleted User]

moneymoner said:

RogerBareford said:

A higher limit doesn't mean a higher debt, it's only debt if someone spends it. Anyone spending up to their limit each month either has too low of a limit or has a budgeting problem, but that isn't the fault of the credit card company.

Your analogy doesn't work because without a speedometer, there is no way for someone to know how fast they are going. But they can work out how much they are spending by simply adding on the amount they spend each time they use the card. This can just be to the nearest £10 if they have an adequate limit.

Going back to your car analogy, it's like saying my car has a top speed of 160 MPH so i'm going to drive flat out on the motorway whenever i can even though the limit is only 70 MPH because there is nothing stopping me doing that. But your saying people should only be sold cars which can only go 70MPH so they don't speed. This isn't a long term solution to controlling debt and doesn't resolve the root cause, which is a budgeting issue.

If you want to go back to my borrowing £2 analogy, then let's say the bowl of change is full of 10p coins. Instead of counting them out to borrow £2 you just grab an amount you think is about £2 and end up taking more. Do you think that is acceptable? Because personally i don't.

My anology suggested that the speed could only be obtained via a SMS messge and I was comparing it with a credit card where your balance (speed) could only be obtained via SMS messge.

Your anology with the top speed of the vehicle and driving flat out is funny, I gotta say.

When I received my credit card I was informed that it had a credit limit of £1000. To me that means I cannot spend more than that amount (or my car as a speed limit of 100Mph which I obviously cannot exceed due to the speed limiter within the ECU). But I was mis-informed or mis-sold the card as there is not a limit in place on the card as I can spend more than the supposed limit and be charged a fee for doing so. There is no limit on the card, it is whatever amount the CC issuer will allow. If you look up limit you will find the actual meaning of the word.

This is very similar to the unlimited broadband fiasco of the 90's. Where broadband provider's were mis-selling broadband packages as "unlimited" bandwidth when there was in fact a limit in place. Customers were complaining that their broadband bandwith was being limited in use. With credit cards it's the reverse situation where customers are being sold a card with a credit limit when in it is in fact unlimited or variable.

I only applied for the card on the basis it had a limit and felt reassured I could not over spend on the card. It ws very easy to quickly get into debt with card though, because I was mis-sold the card as it did not have a credit limit as I interpreted it.

I was sold a Ferrari when I thought I was getting a Mini. It's not my fault if hit 160Mph every time I put my foot down  Yeah, the speeding fines are quite misrable though.

Your limit is £1000, you are an adult as you need to be to get the card, there is a degree of personal responsibility to manage finances, the limit is not a hard limit, you should only spend what you have. Arguing the card was miss-sold on the basis there was no hard cap is unlikely to succeed at the FOS as a complaint

OceanSound

Deleted_User said:

moneymoner said:

RogerBareford said:

A higher limit doesn't mean a higher debt, it's only debt if someone spends it. Anyone spending up to their limit each month either has too low of a limit or has a budgeting problem, but that isn't the fault of the credit card company.

Your analogy doesn't work because without a speedometer, there is no way for someone to know how fast they are going. But they can work out how much they are spending by simply adding on the amount they spend each time they use the card. This can just be to the nearest £10 if they have an adequate limit.

Going back to your car analogy, it's like saying my car has a top speed of 160 MPH so i'm going to drive flat out on the motorway whenever i can even though the limit is only 70 MPH because there is nothing stopping me doing that. But your saying people should only be sold cars which can only go 70MPH so they don't speed. This isn't a long term solution to controlling debt and doesn't resolve the root cause, which is a budgeting issue.

If you want to go back to my borrowing £2 analogy, then let's say the bowl of change is full of 10p coins. Instead of counting them out to borrow £2 you just grab an amount you think is about £2 and end up taking more. Do you think that is acceptable? Because personally i don't.

My anology suggested that the speed could only be obtained via a SMS messge and I was comparing it with a credit card where your balance (speed) could only be obtained via SMS messge.

Your anology with the top speed of the vehicle and driving flat out is funny, I gotta say.

When I received my credit card I was informed that it had a credit limit of £1000. To me that means I cannot spend more than that amount (or my car as a speed limit of 100Mph which I obviously cannot exceed due to the speed limiter within the ECU). But I was mis-informed or mis-sold the card as there is not a limit in place on the card as I can spend more than the supposed limit and be charged a fee for doing so. There is no limit on the card, it is whatever amount the CC issuer will allow. If you look up limit you will find the actual meaning of the word.

This is very similar to the unlimited broadband fiasco of the 90's. Where broadband provider's were mis-selling broadband packages as "unlimited" bandwidth when there was in fact a limit in place. Customers were complaining that their broadband bandwith was being limited in use. With credit cards it's the reverse situation where customers are being sold a card with a credit limit when in it is in fact unlimited or variable.

I only applied for the card on the basis it had a limit and felt reassured I could not over spend on the card. It ws very easy to quickly get into debt with card though, because I was mis-sold the card as it did not have a credit limit as I interpreted it.

I was sold a Ferrari when I thought I was getting a Mini. It's not my fault if hit 160Mph every time I put my foot down  Yeah, the speeding fines are quite misrable though.

Your limit is £1000, you are an adult as you need to be to get the card, there is a degree of personal responsibility to manage finances, the limit is not a hard limit, you should only spend what you have. Arguing the card was miss-sold on the basis there was no hard cap is unlikely to succeed at the FOS as a complaint

 millions of customers affected by unarranged overdraft charges. All now receiving/received refunds. Presumably, they are adults too, with personal responsibility.

About the analogy re. speeding. Good luck to any police officer who tries to take a motorist that exceeds the speed limit by 1mph to Court. Everyone knows there's a grace mph amount. 

born_again

OceanSound said:

Deleted_User said:

About the analogy re. speeding. Good luck to any police officer who tries to take a motorist that exceeds the speed limit by 1mph to Court. Everyone knows there's a grace mph amount. 

There are guidelines, nothing more. Speeding is absolute offence.

Millions of people go over their limits everyday & do not get charged. They bring their accounts back under the limit in the same day.
People kick off & complain that they can not spend their ??? Money, even when told it will take you over your limit, & it's a credit card.
Like everything it is time people took responsibility for their own actions.

RogerBareford

OceanSound said:

Deleted_User said:

moneymoner said:

RogerBareford said:

A higher limit doesn't mean a higher debt, it's only debt if someone spends it. Anyone spending up to their limit each month either has too low of a limit or has a budgeting problem, but that isn't the fault of the credit card company.

Your analogy doesn't work because without a speedometer, there is no way for someone to know how fast they are going. But they can work out how much they are spending by simply adding on the amount they spend each time they use the card. This can just be to the nearest £10 if they have an adequate limit.

Going back to your car analogy, it's like saying my car has a top speed of 160 MPH so i'm going to drive flat out on the motorway whenever i can even though the limit is only 70 MPH because there is nothing stopping me doing that. But your saying people should only be sold cars which can only go 70MPH so they don't speed. This isn't a long term solution to controlling debt and doesn't resolve the root cause, which is a budgeting issue.

If you want to go back to my borrowing £2 analogy, then let's say the bowl of change is full of 10p coins. Instead of counting them out to borrow £2 you just grab an amount you think is about £2 and end up taking more. Do you think that is acceptable? Because personally i don't.

My anology suggested that the speed could only be obtained via a SMS messge and I was comparing it with a credit card where your balance (speed) could only be obtained via SMS messge.

Your anology with the top speed of the vehicle and driving flat out is funny, I gotta say.

When I received my credit card I was informed that it had a credit limit of £1000. To me that means I cannot spend more than that amount (or my car as a speed limit of 100Mph which I obviously cannot exceed due to the speed limiter within the ECU). But I was mis-informed or mis-sold the card as there is not a limit in place on the card as I can spend more than the supposed limit and be charged a fee for doing so. There is no limit on the card, it is whatever amount the CC issuer will allow. If you look up limit you will find the actual meaning of the word.

This is very similar to the unlimited broadband fiasco of the 90's. Where broadband provider's were mis-selling broadband packages as "unlimited" bandwidth when there was in fact a limit in place. Customers were complaining that their broadband bandwith was being limited in use. With credit cards it's the reverse situation where customers are being sold a card with a credit limit when in it is in fact unlimited or variable.

I only applied for the card on the basis it had a limit and felt reassured I could not over spend on the card. It ws very easy to quickly get into debt with card though, because I was mis-sold the card as it did not have a credit limit as I interpreted it.

I was sold a Ferrari when I thought I was getting a Mini. It's not my fault if hit 160Mph every time I put my foot down  Yeah, the speeding fines are quite misrable though.

Your limit is £1000, you are an adult as you need to be to get the card, there is a degree of personal responsibility to manage finances, the limit is not a hard limit, you should only spend what you have. Arguing the card was miss-sold on the basis there was no hard cap is unlikely to succeed at the FOS as a complaint

 millions of customers affected by unarranged overdraft charges. All now receiving/received refunds. Presumably, they are adults too, with personal responsibility.

About the analogy re. speeding. Good luck to any police officer who tries to take a motorist that exceeds the speed limit by 1mph to Court. Everyone knows there's a grace mph amount. 

You can certainly be convicted of speeding if your taken to court for going 1mph over the limit.

Yes there is a grace amount used by police and fixed cameras as they don't feel it's necessary to pull people over for such small amounts but there is nothing stopping people being convicted for it if they are stopped.

RogerBareford

moneymoner said:

OceanSound said:

Of course, choosing the going over limit block may cause embarrassment to customer at a restaurant if they choose to pay with a card that is close to limit  and the bill amount would take them over even by 1p. Also, if paying for concert tickets online, if transaction is declined due to going over 1p, customer tries with a different card, then the tickets may be sold out. 

That's fair choice to offer customers who sign up for a credit card but it's not going to work for the CC provider who is really rubbing their hands for fee's

The CC providers will not even provide a reasonable buffer around the so called "credit limit" to prevent small oversight's as the OP put in the posts subjet. The fact that a £12 fee can be charged for being less than a £1 over the limit is quite obviously exploiting the customers circumstances.

From the reply's I've read, it seems that most of the posters agree with the fee/charges and that the customer is at fault or irresponsible. I do not see the OP at fault and I see the fee imposed to be ridiculous and irresponsible.

Why should there be a buffer when the customer knows the limit and can set their own buffer by making sure they are never within £X of the limit?

moneymoner

Deleted_User said:

Your limit is £1000, you are an adult as you need to be to get the card, there is a degree of personal responsibility to manage finances, the limit is not a hard limit, you should only spend what you have. Arguing the card was miss-sold on the basis there was no hard cap is unlikely to succeed at the FOS as a complaint

You fail to understand that some of the responsibility also resides with the lender. The subject of this post clearly shows that the lender is not concerned about pushing the customer (who is clearly in debt) into further debt by allowing a transaction to exceed the credit limit and by not even providing a buffer of £1 for micro transcations such as this. Any fool can see this but it's acceptable by the FOS so why complain to them. I'm free to disagree with the OP 's overlimit fee even if you don't.

moneymoner

OceanSound said:

  millions of customers affected by unarranged overdraft charges. All now receiving/received refunds. Presumably, they are adults too, with personal responsibility.

About the analogy re. speeding. Good luck to any police officer who tries to take a motorist that exceeds the speed limit by 1mph to Court. Everyone knows there's a grace mph amount. 

That's exactly my point. Not all speedometers are equal or even calibrated to precision. Would be laugable if motorists were fined for being 0.5 over the limit and called irresponsible drivers for not driving 10% lower than the speed limit.

moneymoner

RogerBareford said:

You can certainly be convicted of speeding if your taken to court for going 1mph over the limit.

Yes there is a grace amount used by police and fixed cameras as they don't feel it's necessary to pull people over for such small amounts but there is nothing stopping people being convicted for it if they are stopped.

Good luck with that. So who is going to convict them and with what evidence if all speed detection devices have an allowed grace amount. A basic analog speedometer is not accurate enough with 1Mph units unless it is digital and calibrated on a regular basis.

If you read the figures used in motoring law you will find that most speed capture devices have a 2Mph tolerance on roads and 3Mph tolerance on motorways. A fixed penalty is normally issued if above the tolerance.

It's inconsiderate driving to drive below the speed limit on some roads and motorways unless broken down or in a tractor.

moneymoner

RogerBareford said:

Why should there be a buffer when the customer knows the limit and can set their own buffer by making sure they are never within £X of the limit?

Sure, don't be irresponsible and keep a £0 balance. There should be a buffer to prevent small oversight's (not irresponsible spending) as in the subject of this post.

powerful_Rogue

moneymoner said:

RogerBareford said:

Why should there be a buffer when the customer knows the limit and can set their own buffer by making sure they are never within £X of the limit?

Sure, don't be irresponsible and keep a £0 balance. There should be a buffer to prevent small oversight's (not irresponsible spending) as in the subject of this post.

Totally disagree. If the limit is £1000, then don't go close to it. As for a buffer, imagine they said 'Ok, there is a £1 buffer on all accounts' - Would you still be complaining if you went £1.03 over, so 3p over the buffer?