£12 over limit fee for going 73p over for 2 days

Wheres_My_Cashback

About 15 years ago I just forgot to pay my NatWest credit card. At that time I paid the full balance by cheque at the bank. The balance would have been about £500.

I was charged a fee and interest which was fair enough. Nevertheless, I phoned them and had the charges refunded. The agent emphasised that this was a one off and if it happened again I would not be refunded.

I now pay online as soon as I receive my statement. I do not setup a direct debit because NatWest take this 10 days earlier than the due date.

No, they don't do that.

If you make the minimum payment of £x.xx and it reaches us on the due date of 13 December 2021 ....

Your nominated bank account will be debited with the full balance on 13 Dec 2021 or soon after.

Payment taken on due date.

Thrugelmir

moneymoner said:

Thrugelmir said:

The terms and conditions of the account will clearly state the charges levied in given circumstances. Onus is the account holder to read and comprehend them when opening the account. Using the card will determine that the account holder agrees to and accept these terms. 

Thanks but that's obvious advice, but if you don't agree with them you will not be offered the card on your terms. Having some form of credit/debit card is a necessity today as there is not much you can pay for with cash/cheques considering the covid situation also.

Of course it's obvious. No point in complaining about it.  More productive to spend time solving ones own personal problems in adhering to the rules. 

eskbanker

moneymoner said:

eskbanker said:

No, the available funds check is made, but there will typically be a tolerance, so it's not as simple as 'accept if within the stated limit or decline if beyond it'.

So the check of available funds is or can be made but this method is not used ?

As I said, the available funds check is made, but transactions that only result in a minor excess over the limit may still be authorised anyway.  I'm not aware of the values  of such tolerances being publicised, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that OP was able to exceed their limit by 73p, but it would surprise me if your hypothetical example of going over a £1K limit by £250 was authorised.

moneymoner said:

redux said:

I don't recognise this description of all these surcharges.

If you're in a pub that has a £5 minimum limit for contactless, and one beer is £4, that's the policy of the pub, not the bank. Either pay the next one in advance with the first, persuade them to reduce the limit (which some have done), or pay with cash.

Well your reply just emphasises the point the there is a charge for using electronic payment cards. Otherwise why would there be a minimum payment to use a card.

Of course there's a transaction charge for using payment cards, but the point is that it's picked up by the merchant, not the customer!

moneymoner said:
A pub would never say, sorry you can only buy 2 beers here with cash and they would certainly not charge their punters £3 for a beer paid with cash and £4 for a beer paid with a card.

It's been unlawful for the past four years to levy such surcharges on a differential basis according to specific payment types, but prior to that, many businesses did indeed insist on them for card payments, especially travel companies, car dealers, etc, with high transaction values.

moneymoner said:

Is it just as impractical to display a notice before making a payment that a transaction would incur a £12 fee, as many cash dispensers do, as it is to simly check a balance and decline a transaction ?

Yes, it isn't practical, not least because in many cases, such as your regular automated transactions ("many micro-payments and debits registered with my card"), they happen automatically behind the scenes, so there is no option to display and review such exception handling notices.

HeinzVarieties

eskbanker said:

moneymoner said:

eskbanker said:

No, the available funds check is made, but there will typically be a tolerance, so it's not as simple as 'accept if within the stated limit or decline if beyond it'.

So the check of available funds is or can be made but this method is not used ?

As I said, the available funds check is made, but transactions that only result in a minor excess over the limit may still be authorised anyway.  I'm not aware of the values  of such tolerances being publicised, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that OP was able to exceed their limit by 73p, but it would surprise me if your hypothetical example of going over a £1K limit by £250 was authorised.

moneymoner said:

redux said:

I don't recognise this description of all these surcharges.

If you're in a pub that has a £5 minimum limit for contactless, and one beer is £4, that's the policy of the pub, not the bank. Either pay the next one in advance with the first, persuade them to reduce the limit (which some have done), or pay with cash.

Well your reply just emphasises the point the there is a charge for using electronic payment cards. Otherwise why would there be a minimum payment to use a card.

Of course there's a transaction charge for using payment cards, but the point is that it's picked up by the merchant, not the customer!

moneymoner said:
A pub would never say, sorry you can only buy 2 beers here with cash and they would certainly not charge their punters £3 for a beer paid with cash and £4 for a beer paid with a card.

It's been unlawful for the past four years to levy such surcharges on a differential basis according to specific payment types, but prior to that, many businesses did indeed insist on them for card payments, especially travel companies, car dealers, etc, with high transaction values.

moneymoner said:

Is it just as impractical to display a notice before making a payment that a transaction would incur a £12 fee, as many cash dispensers do, as it is to simly check a balance and decline a transaction ?

Yes, it isn't practical, not least because in many cases, such as your regular automated transactions ("many micro-payments and debits registered with my card"), they happen automatically behind the scenes, so there is no option to display and review such exception handling notices.

This is a red herring. 

I've never had a card that has allowed me to go over my limit intentionally.

I have exceeded my limit a couple of times due to authorisations dropping off and me spending again.

I absolutely guarantee this is what happened with the OP and they have no excuse whatsoever.

eskbanker

HeinzVarieties said:

This is a red herring. 

I've never had a card that has allowed me to go over my limit intentionally.

I have exceeded my limit a couple of times due to authorisations dropping off and me spending again.

I absolutely guarantee this is what happened with the OP and they have no excuse whatsoever.

To be fair to OP, they were accepting responsibility ("I miscalculated the credit available on a card") rather than blaming the bank, as another poster has, but there's no particular reason for you to assert that everyone else's experiences must be the same as yours!

born_again

eskbanker said:

As I said, the available funds check is made, but transactions that only result in a minor excess over the limit may still be authorised anyway.  I'm not aware of the values  of such tolerances being publicised, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that OP was able to exceed their limit by 73p, but it would surprise me if your hypothetical example of going over a £1K limit by £250 was authorised.

Don't know how other banks work, but each customer has their own limit based on their internal scoring. Never allowed to tell the customer this figure for obvious reasons.
So some may only go over a couple of £, while others may go further.
Of course the fact that the limit is factored at the end of the day, rather than at that point, means most will be able to exceed limit, so long as it's back in line by the required time.

Arguments like we are seeing here, makes you wonder how we managed years ago with no online banking or apps to monitor accounts. Only a monthly or 3 monthly statement and if worried a quick trip to the bank to ask. Given how much more you got charged for being overlimit in the old days.

IanManc

HeinzVarieties said:

This is a red herring. 

I've never had a card that has allowed me to go over my limit intentionally.

I have exceeded my limit a couple of times due to authorisations dropping off and me spending again.

I absolutely guarantee this is what happened with the OP and they have no excuse whatsoever.

How is this absolute guarantee enforceable? How can someone claim on it?

Oh, no one can enforce it or claim on it. It is meaningless and worthless.

I suppose you might call it a red herring.

MrFrugalFever

I just want to throw my two pennies worth in, i've enjoyed reading the thread so far, plenty of contention.

I can sympathise with the OP and the situation, as well as the points raised by moneymoner, however, outlined in the Terms & Conditions of agreement, provided at the point of application, will have outlined all of this and it is therefore down to the OP to ensure that the limit isn't exceeded.

Calling it a Credit Limit is very much akin to a speed limit, we all know there's a small amount of 'grace' but in reality it's also breaking the limit to which can have consequences of a varying nature.

You live and (hopefully) you learn

cx6

It is important to note that a credit card is a borrowing facility ie you are not spending your 'own' money like eg cash

Also important is that when you applied for the card you didn't apply for eg a £3000 loan which cannot under any circumstances be increased. You applied for an open-ended borrowing facility. The card company then told you how much you can borrow (a credit limit) and the charges for exceeding that.

What the lender is saying is that we will lend  to you up to a limit (a credit limit). When you try and spend over that limit, the lender is actually saying 'ok, since you asked, we will lend you a bit more but you know the charges...'. 

A credit limit is not a hard stop. It is a line below which certain charges apply and above which different charges apply

moneymoner

Thrugelmir said:

moneymoner said:

Thrugelmir said:

The terms and conditions of the account will clearly state the charges levied in given circumstances. Onus is the account holder to read and comprehend them when opening the account. Using the card will determine that the account holder agrees to and accept these terms. 

Thanks but that's obvious advice, but if you don't agree with them you will not be offered the card on your terms. Having some form of credit/debit card is a necessity today as there is not much you can pay for with cash/cheques considering the covid situation also.

Of course it's obvious. No point in complaining about it.  More productive to spend time solving ones own personal problems in adhering to the rules. 

Without complaints and challenges, policies would not be reviewed.