Amazon ps5 refund dispute

jonesey1985

Ergates said:

jonesey1985 said:

Ergates said:

jonesey1985 said:

Ergates said:

jonesey1985 said:

Ergates said:

jonesey1985 said:

lukehammer said:

jonesey1985 said:

Weird how all these new posters receive boxes of garbage instead of high end electronics from Amazon, but more seasoned posters do not.

This is the problem, I'm fully aware how this looks but can ensure you I'm being entirely honest there was no ps5 in the box i was delivered and on inspection had clearly been tampered with. Yes im new to this forum doesn't mean I'm dishonest,  I've just never encountered this problem before

If they don't play ball it's your word against theirs that there was no PS5 in the box.

You can ask them, when they respond, what the box weighed at various points through its journey if they're willing to bother with that (and assuming they turn you down.)

Other than that it's trying to convince your credit card company or a judge you received a box of LEGO rather than a PS5, which may not be easy. The CC company in particular will put up a wall if it goes via S75.

The OP getting the box opening filmed might help - hopefully it was clear enough that the  box was being opened for the first time.

Anyone can reseal a box and reopen it, it's not particularly difficult.

This seems to resemble the "wrong address - have to pay return fees" thread and actually providing proof that the item was handed to the consumer.  I suspect that the video evidence is going to be shaky at best.  What would be more compelling is showing an abnormal weight at some point through the journey.  With the exception of the last mile where it obviously would not be weighed.

The OP should be asking for this if Amazon decline the refund, which they have not yet, but it may not favour them if it was half-inched by the final delivery courier.

They could - but amazon parcels are normally sealed with special* "amazon tape".  It's *possible* that the video makes it clear that this was "amazon tape" and that it hadn't been cut previously, and also that the box hadn't been opened from the bottom first or anything.

* well, not really special, just branded

Faking things on a video is not particularly difficult, including "cutting" already cut tape.

There is also the problem that Amazon stuff has tape on both sides of the box.  Cut the tape on one side, empty it, flip it over and then film yourself "unboxing" using the other side.

That's what I mean by opened from the bottom - it all depends on what the video shows.  Maybe they did it magic trick stylee closely filmed the tape at both ends (and the sides) to show the box wasn't opened.  Or maybe they didn't.  Who knows.

It won't matter which side they open it from. There is no "right" way to open an Amazon box.

If you think an average scammee is smart enough to do some sort of 360 shot of the entire box, moving it around to prove that the bottom wasn't retaped up you're delusional.  And I'd be a bit suspicious if they did.

Besides, Premiere and Final Cut Pro have free trials.

No I don't - that's the point.   If I were going to open a box that I suspected didn't contain the valuable item I'd paid for, and I decided to film it as proof, I'd make sure to do just that though.  Making doubly sure that it was clear it was still sealed with the original amazon tape too.   It's not the kind of proof that would stand up in a murder trial, obviously, but it might be enough to persuade a company that I'm not attempting to commit fraud and that maybe they should look at other potential culprit rather than just dismissing the case.

I'm not suggesting it would stand up in a murder trial, but unless the OP has done a full 360 of the box I wouldn't accept their video as proof it wasn't unopened.

It's trivial to edit video or produce a fake "unopening" by simply opening the bottom, taking the thing out, putting something in, and then "opening" it from the other side.  And if someone went to the trouble of trying to show it was sealed on all sides I'd be very sceptical, because it's not something anyone would do unless they'd thought very carefully about it, which most scammee's wouldn't do.

They'd also not film it because who really does that?

Ergates

jonesey1985 said:

Ergates said:

jonesey1985 said:

Ergates said:

jonesey1985 said:

Ergates said:

jonesey1985 said:

Ergates said:

jonesey1985 said:

lukehammer said:

jonesey1985 said:

Weird how all these new posters receive boxes of garbage instead of high end electronics from Amazon, but more seasoned posters do not.

This is the problem, I'm fully aware how this looks but can ensure you I'm being entirely honest there was no ps5 in the box i was delivered and on inspection had clearly been tampered with. Yes im new to this forum doesn't mean I'm dishonest,  I've just never encountered this problem before

If they don't play ball it's your word against theirs that there was no PS5 in the box.

You can ask them, when they respond, what the box weighed at various points through its journey if they're willing to bother with that (and assuming they turn you down.)

Other than that it's trying to convince your credit card company or a judge you received a box of LEGO rather than a PS5, which may not be easy. The CC company in particular will put up a wall if it goes via S75.

The OP getting the box opening filmed might help - hopefully it was clear enough that the  box was being opened for the first time.

Anyone can reseal a box and reopen it, it's not particularly difficult.

This seems to resemble the "wrong address - have to pay return fees" thread and actually providing proof that the item was handed to the consumer.  I suspect that the video evidence is going to be shaky at best.  What would be more compelling is showing an abnormal weight at some point through the journey.  With the exception of the last mile where it obviously would not be weighed.

The OP should be asking for this if Amazon decline the refund, which they have not yet, but it may not favour them if it was half-inched by the final delivery courier.

They could - but amazon parcels are normally sealed with special* "amazon tape".  It's *possible* that the video makes it clear that this was "amazon tape" and that it hadn't been cut previously, and also that the box hadn't been opened from the bottom first or anything.

* well, not really special, just branded

Faking things on a video is not particularly difficult, including "cutting" already cut tape.

There is also the problem that Amazon stuff has tape on both sides of the box.  Cut the tape on one side, empty it, flip it over and then film yourself "unboxing" using the other side.

That's what I mean by opened from the bottom - it all depends on what the video shows.  Maybe they did it magic trick stylee closely filmed the tape at both ends (and the sides) to show the box wasn't opened.  Or maybe they didn't.  Who knows.

It won't matter which side they open it from. There is no "right" way to open an Amazon box.

If you think an average scammee is smart enough to do some sort of 360 shot of the entire box, moving it around to prove that the bottom wasn't retaped up you're delusional.  And I'd be a bit suspicious if they did.

Besides, Premiere and Final Cut Pro have free trials.

No I don't - that's the point.   If I were going to open a box that I suspected didn't contain the valuable item I'd paid for, and I decided to film it as proof, I'd make sure to do just that though.  Making doubly sure that it was clear it was still sealed with the original amazon tape too.   It's not the kind of proof that would stand up in a murder trial, obviously, but it might be enough to persuade a company that I'm not attempting to commit fraud and that maybe they should look at other potential culprit rather than just dismissing the case.

I'm not suggesting it would stand up in a murder trial, but unless the OP has done a full 360 of the box I wouldn't accept their video as proof it wasn't unopened.

But that's precisely my point - *if* that is what the OP did, then their video *might* help them.  This is all just idle speculation of course (when I really should be sleeping) as we have no idea what the OP did or didn't film.

jonesey1985 said:

They'd also not film it because who really does that?

Well, someone who's read a few of these "I order an X and amazon delivered a Y" threads and thinks the box it too light might now.   If they read this thread, they might even do a 360 scan and zoom in on the tape.

lukehammer

I can clarify all this. My evidence is shaky at best. My first thoughts were to take pictures of the box all the way round, the box had clearly been tampered with as the top and sides had the amazon branded black tape around but the tape was very neatly cut to stop at the bottom of the sides, and the bottom had only clear selotape holding it closed and no amazon tape at all, its not like the amazon tape had been cut and taped back over with seloptape. Suspicious, as you'd think if it had been wrapped all round with amazon tape originally, that doesn't usually come off completely without ripping and taking off some of the carboard behind it, so its like it had been left untaped with the amazon tape at the bottom deliberately to make access easier . Anyway, so we pictured it all round and my wife then suggested we video me opening the package, i said there wasn't a lot of point as it would be easily faked anyway,  but we did, we didn't however do a 360 video only of me opening the box from the seloptaped side. As i picked the parcel up from the floor in front of my front door and realised the weight i did ask the delivery driver to 'hang on a mo, I'm just going to grab some scissors and open in this" thinking I'll get him and the van in the pic the only way i can see the picture couldn't be disputed, but in the 10 secs it took me to get the scissors he'd jumped back in his van and was just pulling away, again very suspicious. I can see this is just going to be a battle of my word vs theirs as any of the video or photo evidence coule be faked easily but i couldnt think of any other solution to the problem. I'd obviously rather not be banned from amazon as i am a fan of their prime video service and have been a loyal customer ever since i was a teenager buying ps2 games from them. I've only once in over 15 years returned anything. But equally I'm not willing to give up and put £450 down as a lose, both my wife and i would happily stand up in court and swear under oath the the package contained nothing but a box of lego and unfortunately this is looking like the most likely route at the mo unless there is any other suggestions people have. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP these threads crop up more than they should and there is always an air of scepticism which isn't anything personal. 

In these situations there is the chance that the order has been mispacked, that someone in delivery process has swapped the item or that the story isn't true. 

Amazon are not perfect, I don't think their packing is great and their choice of couriers is sometimes unsuitable, delivery drivers on budget couriers can have high turnover due to low pay and the chance of theft is higher than say with Royal Mail. 

It's very unlikely to get to court but the algorithm will either say yes or no and when it says no you have a bit of a fight on your hands and then may find they ban you if you win. 

If you Google ceoemail and search that site for Amazon you'll find a higher level of customer facing contact, beyond this have a chat with the card provider.

jonesey1985

lukehammer said:

I can clarify all this. My evidence is shaky at best. My first thoughts were to take pictures of the box all the way round, the box had clearly been tampered with as the top and sides had the amazon branded black tape around but the tape was very neatly cut to stop at the bottom of the sides, and the bottom had only clear selotape holding it closed and no amazon tape at all, its not like the amazon tape had been cut and taped back over with seloptape. Suspicious, as you'd think if it had been wrapped all round with amazon tape originally, that doesn't usually come off completely without ripping and taking off some of the carboard behind it, so its like it had been left untaped with the amazon tape at the bottom deliberately to make access easier . Anyway, so we pictured it all round and my wife then suggested we video me opening the package, i said there wasn't a lot of point as it would be easily faked anyway,  but we did, we didn't however do a 360 video only of me opening the box from the seloptaped side. As i picked the parcel up from the floor in front of my front door and realised the weight i did ask the delivery driver to 'hang on a mo, I'm just going to grab some scissors and open in this" thinking I'll get him and the van in the pic the only way i can see the picture couldn't be disputed, but in the 10 secs it took me to get the scissors he'd jumped back in his van and was just pulling away, again very suspicious. I can see this is just going to be a battle of my word vs theirs as any of the video or photo evidence coule be faked easily but i couldnt think of any other solution to the problem. I'd obviously rather not be banned from amazon as i am a fan of their prime video service and have been a loyal customer ever since i was a teenager buying ps2 games from them. I've only once in over 15 years returned anything. But equally I'm not willing to give up and put £450 down as a lose, both my wife and i would happily stand up in court and swear under oath the the package contained nothing but a box of lego and unfortunately this is looking like the most likely route at the mo unless there is any other suggestions people have. 

Yes, it is shaky.

You could have easily untaped it and taped it up yourself with sellotape. Then got the camera out and filmed yourself "unboxing it" for the first time.  Incidentally, you can buy Amazon-branded tape on eBay, so even if it was taped all the way around in Amazon tape it wouldn't really prove anything.

Ultimately if Amazon refuses to play ball it's going to either be a chargeback, S75 or court. I suspect you will receive significant pushback from the bank with an S75 claim, a chargeback will likely be defended by Amazon which leaves the court system.  I'm on the fence about your chances there.

Alderbank

lukehammer said:

...but in the 10 secs it took me to get the scissors he'd jumped back in his van and was just pulling away, again very suspicious. 

Not at all suspicious for someone who might have 173 more parcels to deliver that day?

bris

It must have been opened if it was replaced with Lego, therefor no proper seals, so filming a box opening is useless and proves nothing.

The weight of the item is your best defence, everything is weighed so their is a record of the weight when it left the warehouse, Amazon already know that weight and it will be the biggest influence in any claim.

If it was swapped out after loading then that would be your word against the drivers, they will side with their driver simply because it makes more sense that customers are trying to rip them off like this every day,

Their is a bright side though, the guy that ordered the Lego has a brand new PS5 to play with instead. 

Alderbank

bris said:

It must have been opened if it was replaced with Lego, therefor no proper seals, so filming a box opening is useless and proves nothing.

The weight of the item is your best defence, everything is weighed so their is a record of the weight when it left the warehouse, Amazon already know that weight and it will be the biggest influence in any claim.

If it was swapped out after loading then that would be your word against the drivers, they will side with their driver simply because it makes more sense that customers are trying to rip them off like this every day,

Their is a bright side though, the guy that ordered the Lego has a brand new PS5 to play with instead. 

I'm not sure it does make good business sense. Amazon's IT will link every customer complaint like this with the driver who made that delivery. With a rogue driver a pattern will soon appear. That driver (associate, partner or whatever they call them) will not last long.

jonesey1985

Alderbank said:

bris said:

It must have been opened if it was replaced with Lego, therefor no proper seals, so filming a box opening is useless and proves nothing.

The weight of the item is your best defence, everything is weighed so their is a record of the weight when it left the warehouse, Amazon already know that weight and it will be the biggest influence in any claim.

If it was swapped out after loading then that would be your word against the drivers, they will side with their driver simply because it makes more sense that customers are trying to rip them off like this every day,

Their is a bright side though, the guy that ordered the Lego has a brand new PS5 to play with instead. 

I'm not sure it does make good business sense. Amazon's IT will link every customer complaint like this with the driver who made that delivery. With a rogue driver a pattern will soon appear. That driver (associate, partner or whatever they call them) will not last long.

I suspect that they mean that publically they will side with the driver. Behind closed doors, he may end up getting the chop.

ricone

They sent me food supplement pills instead of a computer hard drive and won’t refund me until I return the computer hard drive. I have told them many times via phone, online chat and email but they say they sent the hard drive.