How should an estate be handled if the value of chattels has apparently decreased since probate?

RonsDaughter

Hi everyone!
Should chattels be revalued when it comes to distribution of an estate if an executor (who is also a beneficiary) says they have decreased in value? It is a small amount but it is preventing an agreement to distribute the estate. 
If the chattels should stay at probate value, where would I find legal information to state this? I can only find stuff about CGT/IHT for if things have gone up.
Thank you.

Keep_pedalling

I doubt they have actually decreased in value, the executor more likely under valued them. The simplest thing to do would be the sell them and distribute the cash as per the will.

RonsDaughter

Keep_pedalling said:

I doubt they have actually decreased in value, the executor more likely under valued them. The simplest thing to do would be the sell them and distribute the cash as per the will.

I would like to sell at auction but the executor/beneficiary wants to buy them. He has blocked the auction route so if anyone could help me with the legal position then I may be able to work this out! 

molerat

Who valued them in the first instance and who has valued them now ?  How much value is in these chattels as getting a professional revaluation may cost more than the amount in question.  The executor must get best value for the items and can't just pluck a random figure out of the air and buy them himself.  The problem is that any legal challenge will cost.

TBagpuss

Perhaps remind the executor that they have a legal duty, as executor, to act in the best interests of all of the beneficiaries and that what they are proposing at the very least gives the impression that they are putting their own interests as a beneficiary above those of the other beneficiaries.

If they are right that the chattels have gone down in value then they will be able to buy them at lower value at the auction.
Alternatively, you can say that you also want to have the items and request that they are split, ot that they are auctioned so anyone who wants has an equal chance to buy them.

Finally, fo think about how much they are worth and how much this matters to you, particularly if you are family members. s the difference in values worth the damage to the relationships? I appreciate that feeling that they have taken advantage is also damaging to any relationships but I'm thinking about wider family situations too - are you likely to end up being perceived as the one who was greedy and stopped poor X from keeping their mother's heirlooms, for instance? 

RonsDaughter

molerat said:

Who valued them in the first instance and who has valued them now ?  How much value is in these chattels as getting a professional revaluation may cost more than the amount in question.  The executor must get best value for the items and can't just pluck a random figure out of the air and buy them himself.  The problem is that any legal challenge will cost.

They were valued by a family friend who trades in collectibles. We both agreed to this as "TDT" refused to have a professional valuation due to cost, however, I since found out that the family friend now reckons they have gone down in price since valuation 2 years ago.  
You said "The executor must get best value for the items and can't just pluck a random figure out of the air and buy them himself." Is there any legal advice that says something about the value of chattels at time of death v distribution? I can only find stuff about price increases.

getmore4less

the areas of law you need to read up on is self dealing as an executor.

pollypenny

If these chattels are in any way what might be termed 'collectibles', they will be subject to the vagaries of fashion, as any showing of Bargain Hunt, Flog It or Antiques Roadshow will tell you. 

Thrugelmir

RonsDaughter said:

molerat said:

Who valued them in the first instance and who has valued them now ?  How much value is in these chattels as getting a professional revaluation may cost more than the amount in question.  The executor must get best value for the items and can't just pluck a random figure out of the air and buy them himself.  The problem is that any legal challenge will cost.

 however, I since found out that the family friend now reckons they have gone down in price since valuation 2 years ago.  

Probate value is at date of death. What happens subsequently is irrelevant. Collectible markets are notoriously fickle. 

doodling

Hi,

My take on this (and I'm willing to be corrected) is that the probate value is as at date of death and will not change.  The distribution should however be based on the value of the assets as at distribution, not the probate value.

If you really believe that the items are undervalued there is nothing preventing you from offering to buy them for a value greater than the other executor is valuing them.  The effectively puts a minimum value on the items (the executor will either have to sell them to you or value them at the price you're offering, anything else is very obviously failing in their duty as executor).  Of course, the risk with this approach is that you turn out to be wrong, the other executor calls your bluff and you end up buying something for more than its worth.

If it is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, it is probably better to just let it go.  Think of it as the price for escaping the relationship you are currently forced into with a co-executor you do not like.

Marcon

doodling said:

If it is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, it is probably better to just let it go.  Think of it as the price for escaping the relationship you are currently forced into with a co-executor you do not like.

Not sure OP is an executor, but rather just a beneficiary?

If it's a small amount, why make it into a major issue? As others have said, collectibles fluctuate in value the whole time - and 'value' on such items is only ever what someone is prepared to pay for them. 'Proper' auctions (live ones) aren't cheap and you have to pay costs even if items don't sell - and those costs will then come out of the inheritance.