Assistance with Appeal against Alliance Parking PCN

Coupon-mad

They have a £100 invoice (£60 if paid before tomorrow and £170 if paid after 24 November).

Can you urgently show us that letter NTK please, I want to see one that tries to move from a to z within weeks with no extra work.

Rhod

Hi

Apologies for jumping into this thread but it totally mirror's my own case. I have been waiting above for NTK to be posted to coupon-mad so I thought in the meantime I'd post my recent  NTK from Alliance parking as well as underneath that post a reply I received as "keeper" from their complaints department via email.

Firstly their NTK states on the back "For the avoidance of doubt, the registered keeper will have an opportunity to appeal should we reach a point where we are seeking to hold them liable for the charge, usually when we issue a "letter of Claim" (pre court proceedings)

I tried an initial appeal as keeper through their complaints email as no other means possible or offered on their NTK. Their reply is below.

In their reply they actually say it's their policy not to allow a keeper to appeal and that this is "Non-negotiable" so totally against schedule 4 POFA where it states keeper's right of initial appeal and discount offered.

They then go on and say that if the driver isn't the one appealing they will send a 'Letter of Claim" and only THEN will keeper be able to appeal on a non standard basis (whatever that means) and then stating at this point charges will be 160 pounds. (so keeper does not get initial appeal or discount - against POFA)

They then go on to say politely !!!!!! off now and cheekily end with "I trust that I have clarified YOUR position"

Any comments on the above would be welcome. I have written to the Aldi supermarket manager (car park) and intend to complain to the IPC. This thread helped a great deal btw. Cheers!!

Date of Parking invoice/fine was 12/10/21

Coupon-mad

That is appalling.  "Complaints Department" hahaha!   This lot are ex clampers, I think, and the greedy thug mentality appears to be not far under the veneer of AOS 'professional standards' with some firms.

To be honest, even though it is banging your head against a brick wall, those of you with Alliance PCNs should ALL complain to the IPC that registered keepers are being denied their right to appeal against their liability.

Also get your MPs to all complain to the IPC about this, because the keeper liability provisions of the POFA 2012 were withheld till early 2013 until an appeals system was in place for keepers.  The Impact Assessment of the POFA bill specifically rejected the draconian option (and inappropriate power for a private firm) of obliging keepers to name the driver.

The IPC are not going to agree but we need them bombarded with formal MP complaints about this rogue practice, and the answer is NOT to use the 'non standard' £15 IAS where people futilely 'pay to lose' and be bound by the decision.  

Make sure your MP knows that us NOT an option for consumers as the woeful IAS Annual Report reported in a self-congratulatory and politically-barbed document, that they refuse 96% of appeals:

https://www.theias.org/uploads/I-UFbqV_hqUEzZkHFXuC12N79BZnxX4hHPXwZyq4p1Q/2019-2020 IAS Annual Report.pdf

You could not make it up.  But some firms do.

You are all (posters who are being subjected to this drivel) being refused appeal at PCN level and being told that the charge will just go up.  No reason, no work involved, just a punitive 'late fee' with no lawful basis.  

And you are told 'tough' you are stuffed and can only wait till LBC stage and court.  Fine, bring it on.

D_P_Dance

,,,  £170 if paid after 24 November).

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Rhod

Hi

Thanks for your responses. So my next move is complain to IPC and then MP and await this so called issuing of “Letter of Claim”

Surely this is not court bound? I’m just going to continue saying we are in dispute and this is a civil matter between Alliance and me (to whoever fancies listening!)
cheers
Rhod

Coupon-mad

Possibly court bound but they'd lose.  We do this all the time.

schmuel

Hello all

Apologies for jumping into this thread but I am in the same situation as the OP and Rhod. I have an NTK from Alliance (received 107 days after the event by the way!) with no option to appeal as the keeper.

I have submitted a complaint about this disgraceful practice to IPC using their online form.

I'd now be grateful for some advice please as to whether I should email an appeal to Alliance's "complaints" email address, using the standard appeal template (as Rhod has done), or simply ignore and wait for a "Letter of Claim" to arrive on the doorstep?

Thanks in advance

Coupon-mad

Yes go on, get their useless response as part of your evidence for court.  Make it clear you wanted to appeal against your liability as registered keeper, and that the Impact Assessment of the POFA 2012 Sch4, decided NOT to make it an obligation upon keepers to declare who was driving to a private firm as that would have been a step too far, but the POFA also required that keepers could appeal against their liability.  

Add that you will NOT use the IAS 'non standard' kangaroo court that reported in its self-serving and politically-barbed Annual Report that they uphold just FOUR PER CENT of consumer appeals.   

Finish by saying something  like: 'see you in court and as this is disputed, do NOT pass this to any DCA nor add your false payer of 'costs' as if it's some sort of penalty clause.   When a parking charge is disputed, to pass the details on to a DCA would be in breach of the GDPR.  A disputed debt is not a collectable debt. Under the FCA guidelines, CONC 7.14.1 says: "A firm must suspend any steps it takes or its agent take in the recovery of a debt from a customer where the customer disputes the debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds."

It's here:  https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/7/?view=chapter

Also get your MP to send the DLUHC (Neil O'Brien MP, according to the BPA) your case as an example that IPC firms are refusing keepers' rights to appeal and just slapping on false fees that are never incurred.

Le_Kirk

Agree with other respondents; if they sent a Notice to KEEPER and you are appealing as KEEPER, how can you possibly be a third party - oh, I see, in the minds of the PPC!

Fruitcake

To all posters who have received a NTK from Alliance, appeal using the template in blue text from the NEWBIES by post.
Send it unaltered from the keeper, first class from a Post Office counter, and obtain the all important free proof of posting.

Take copies of the appeal and photos as it is put in an envelope, and a photo of the same envelope at the Post Office.

This is on top of all the complaints already advised.