TV bought online from John Lewis

tishmk

We bought a TV online from John Lewis using a credit card.  When it was delivered, we couldn't connect to our Sky Q box; intermittant sound/visual every 3 seconds.  On searching forums we found that this was a known issue with the TV: LG Oled C1;  reviews from John Lewis customers were on the forum stating that refunds had been issued and the TV was returned.  Even reviews on the John Lewis website state this.  When we contacted John Lewis to ask them to collect the item (due to it's size) and refund we were informed that it was software issue and therefore the responsibility was with LG as the TV itself worked;  only not in our household where the SkyQ box is our TV receiver.  When we quoted the distance selling rules, we were told that by unpacking and turning on the TV, the TV was now in a used state and therefore those regulations were not relevant.  The TV has been in our hallway unused since 3 hours from delivery (which was spent trying to set it up).  When we asked why they were continuing to sell the TV online knowing the issue existed without informing customers, ie stating it couldn't be used with SkyQ they said that wasn't necessary as their online advertising didn't state that any TV could be used with SkyQ.  They have advised that if we attempted to create a chargeback/dispute with the credit card company, they in turn would dispute it.  They have advised we should wait for the software update from LG, possible mid November.  Any advice on how to proceed would be welcomed.

cx6

John Lewis are completely wrong - you are allowed to inspect the TV - it is clearly faulty - you have 14 days to return in any case.

If they persist report them to Trading Standards, raise a fuss on their Facebook account, raise a complaint following whatever complaints procedure they have and if they persist notify your card company that you wish either a chargeback (JL pays) or a section 75 (card company pays) claim.

Oh, and next time buy from Richer Sounds!

tishmk

This is their updated response received today:
Having looked into this, we would ask that you wait for the update even if due to unforeseen circumstances cause the release date to be pushed back. I am confident LG are working to resolve the issue as swiftly as possible. We do not cover software issues and some customer's were issued refunds before we were made aware this was an issue caused by the software.

 

As a resolution for your issue has been offered, that is to wait until LG roll out the update to fix the 4K resolution compatibility, we will also dispute any charge back request from your credit card company.

 

Regarding your right to test products, we place display models of televisions in our shops to allow for testing and for those wishing to test their televisions before use cannot have data inputted into the television. I appreciate smart televisions do ask for your data as part of first time setup making this tricky to navigate.

 

Once data has been inputted into the television, we deem that you have gone beyond reasonable testing as you have made it illegal for us sell this this television to someone you have not given explicit permission to access your data under The Data Protection Act 2018. In addition to this, the same act prevents us from giving you the details of any person wishing to purchase this product. 

 

Should you as the customer decide to return an item for refund without prior notification, John Lewis are entitled to dispatch the item back to you if we see fit, as no refund or replacement agreement has been reached. It is also important to note that if an item is returned without the prior knowledge and agreement of John Lewis and a return reference being provided, it is possible that the returned item may not be locatable

Sandtree

JL's point is irrelevant as you are not returning the item as a "change of mind" but are rejecting the item as faulty within the first 30 days.

There is a potential debate however if incompatibility between two devices is technically a fault or not unless the TV is advertised as compatible with SkyQ

littleboo

Presumably there is a factory reset option which would remove your data from the set?

neilmcl

Looking into this, it's not whether the the TV can't/won't work with Sky Q, the issue is that at the moment the C1 can't play 4K via Sky Q. It's an HDCP 2.2 issue but apparently an OTA update is going to be released in the coming weeks. Personally I'd hold on to see what happens.

LG are fully aware of this and as they work closely with Sky anyway it's in their interest to get this resolved the sooner the better.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

tishmk said:

This is their updated response received today:
Having looked into this, we would ask that you wait for the upthdate even if due to unforeseen circumstances cause the release date to be pushed back. I am confident LG are working to resolve the issue as swiftly as possible. We do not cover software issues and some customer's were issued refunds before we were made aware this was an issue caused by the software.

 

As a resolution for your issue has been offered, that is to wait until LG roll out the update to fix the 4K resolution compatibility, we will also dispute any charge back request from your credit card company.

 

Regarding your right to test products, we place display models of televisions in our shops to allow for testing and for those wishing to test their televisions before use cannot have data inputted into the television. I appreciate smart televisions do ask for your data as part of first time setup making this tricky to navigate.

 

Once data has been inputted into the television, we deem that you have gone beyond reasonable testing as you have made it illegal for us sell this this television to someone you have not given explicit permission to access your data under The Data Protection Act 2018. In addition to this, the same act prevents us from giving you the details of any person wishing to purchase this product. 

 

Should you as the customer decide to return an item for refund without prior notification, John Lewis are entitled to dispatch the item back to you if we see fit, as no refund or replacement agreement has been reached. It is also important to note that if an item is returned without the prior knowledge and agreement of John Lewis and a return reference being provided, it is possible that the returned item may not be locatable

What a load of rubbish the part in bold is.

So can a TV not be reset to factory settings removing all data? 

OP you have a choice to wait for the update or push back and claim the TV does not conform to the contract. 

If you are looking to reject within 30 days they can ask you to show the fault exists but they appear to acknowledge it does so I don't think that is necessary. 

If you was willing to accept what may effectively be viewed as a repair by waiting for the update and that still doesn't resolve the problem you could try looking at the final right to reject, which would be for a full refund if exercised within 6 months.

I'm assuming the TV was more than £100 so as well as chargebacks you are also covered by S75.

If you aren't happy speak with your card provider, I don't see how they can claim the software not being compatible with something common like a Sky box isn't their responsibility, if it were an app or another piece of software then maybe but why wouldn't a TV accept a common piece of hardware designed to be used together.

neilmcl

Sandtree said:

JL's point is irrelevant as you are not returning the item as a "change of mind" but are rejecting the item as faulty within the first 30 days.

There is a potential debate however if incompatibility between two devices is technically a fault or not unless the TV is advertised as compatible with SkyQ

As mentioned, it is a fault, a software bug in fact that renders HDCP 2.2 inoperable.

neilmcl

https://www.whathifi.com/news/newer-lg-c1-tvs-cant-play-4k-from-sky-q-but-a-fix-is-on-the-way

user1977

tishmk said:

Once data has been inputted into the television, we deem that you have gone beyond reasonable testing as you have made it illegal for us sell this this television to someone you have not given explicit permission to access your data under The Data Protection Act 2018. In addition to this, the same act prevents us from giving you the details of any person wishing to purchase this product. 

Utter nonsense - if this were true then it would be impossible to return pretty much any internet-enabled device, for fear that a future owner might, er, pop round and use your wifi?

A useful thread to bookmark for those who think John Lewis still provides good customer service.

Alderbank

littleboo said:

Presumably there is a factory reset option which would remove your data from the set?

There will be a 'factory reset' option. Whether it erases all data is unknown. Many reset programs just alter a flag.