EDF Direct Debit Scam

Fred2712

Luvvaduck said:

Maybe I need to clarify point 2 on my original post
IF
I have £150 of credit from the summer and my expected bill for the next 6 months is £950
THEN
The correct Direct Debit for the next six months should be (950-150)/6  = 133/month
BUT
EDF ignored the £150 and just calculated 950/6 = 158
THUS
EDF would be charging £25 per month too much for no reason other than they think they can get away with it

As someone else pointed out any review would be based on getting to zero on the annual review which is probably in 6 months time, but they also have to give notice before they change the dvd amount so it could be 950-150 / 5 months.

Luvvaduck

Thanks for the suggestion Mr Controller, if I didn't have a non-smart smart meter (ie one that talks to Eon but not my current supplier EDF) I might consider it although a properly functioning and calculated direct debit is my preferred option. Just wish EDF wouldn't mess with the calculation

To those suggesting the figure might relate to 5 months instead of 6, as a qualified accountant I would have to bury my head in shame if I had made that mistake but thankfully no burying is required.
In reality there are some differences to the figures I used in my example due to them taking one more of the old DD amount and then 5 of the new but the principle of them not adjusting for the amount I am currently in credit remains valid.

Curiousgirl1

Just as a matter of interest, what was your original direct debit & what did EDF want to change it to? 

Fred2712

Just seen an example of an Edf bill online (sept 2021) & it clearly states taking into account ANY Existing credit we predict you may need to spend x amount between now & your annual review...

QrizB

Luvvaduck said:

To those suggesting the figure might relate to 5 months instead of 6, as a qualified accountant I would have to bury my head in shame if I had made that mistake but thankfully no burying is required.

If I was a qualified accountant I'd be a bit more circumspect about what I called a "scam", TBH.

Luvvaduck

Fred 
Actual wording from my bill :-

"Your new account balance £146.66 in credit
Your annual billing period is 13 Apr 2021 - 9 May 2022.
About your payment
We want to make sure you're paying the right amount for your energy so that you don't need to make any extra payments when your billing plan ends.
If you signed up to a fixed price tariff, the price you pay for each unit of energy won't change until that product ends.
Your monthly payments will change if the amount of energy you use goes up or down.

How we calculated your new monthly payments of £169.00
1.We looked at your payments and how much energy you're using.
2.We kept your monthly payment for 20 Nov 2021 at £117.00
3.We worked out you'll spend £962.00 on energy from now until your next bill on or around 9 May 2022.
We divided £962.00 minus the £117.00, by 5 the number of subsequent monthly payments until your next bill."

If you read the above the only place the credit balance could possibly be included in their calculation is if the £962 estimated usage figure is net of the £146 credit but there is no way this can be true as it would mean my actual usage would be £1108  - whereas my own estimate based on 7 years of usage data recalculated at the new variable rate is anywhere from £850 to £950 depending on the weather whilst also including an allowance for a short period on whatever the new cap rate in April is set at.

So EDF are ignoring the credit balance for the purpose of this calculation and I say again that in my own humble opinion (and yes Qriz as an accountant) that this is a scam designed to keep £146 of my money in EDF's bank account for the next six months

Verdigris

How do you know what the rate from April to May will be? I don't know the answer except that it will be considerably higher. I'm sure EDF have a good idea that it will be much higher too.

Luvvaduck

I don't know what the rate will be
But I do know that current publicly available estimates are that the cap could move to somewhere around £1500 to £1600 which is around 20% to 30% higher than the current one
Which for me even if it is 30% would for the month of April add something like £50 to my bill - less in reality as April is a lower use month
£50 is not £146 so this is not the answer to the question of where the credit on my account has gone in their calculation
 

BobT36

emmajones1976 said:

Where is the scam? You realise you will ultimately only ever pay for the energy you use, yes?

Because it's not the customer's responsibility to lend money to a private business. Only pay for what they've used / owe. 
Some others are keeping the entire company afloat on these inflated payments, essentially using their customer's pockets as an interest free business loan. 

Now EDF is far too big to 'need' that, but it doesn't stop them doing it and making some extra dosh out of it / covering other overheads. If they're charging you for more than you're actually using, that's not good, as your money is sat in their bank and not yours. 

wild666

The supplier might be using figures that anticipate an increase in the tariffs. If they go down in price then you have a credit balance and if they increase more than expected then you have a debit balance. The £150 equates to using £25 per month extra on gas/electric in the winter months plus any increase on the bill, extra lighting, more gas than the monthly £25 that the £150 credit equates too.

I never use average readings when I change suppliers, 3,200 & 12,000, I add up the bills I have downloaded and divide by the number of months i.e. 12 or more then multiply the average figure by 12, the more bills the person has the more months there is to divide by.