Section 75 cover of cancelled flights or hotel bookings due to COVID restrictions

zagfles

emmajones1976 said:

If all that happened then the hotel would likely be shut too, and they would cancel the whole thing.

Packages are being sold to Turkey now when masks are required in all public spaces inc outdoors inc the beach. Personally if I go on a beach holiday it'll make it rubbish if I have to wear a mask even when swimming in the sea. And can you imagine trying to keep a mask on a young child when playing on the beach or swimming in the sea, not sure what the age limit is but one site said 2 !! Another said 6. 

emmajones1976

Well that is known information now, anyone booking a holiday to Turkey knowing that is, quite frankly, an idiot.

zagfles

emmajones1976 said:

Well that is known information now, anyone booking a holiday to Turkey knowing that is, quite frankly, an idiot.

Well obviously, the point is that the OP could book to somewhere else without such rules, and the rules could change to something like Turkey's between now and when they travel. And given package holidays to Turkey are still going ahead, the package is unlikely to be cancelled.

So the OP would either have to go despite the restrictions, or likely lose the whole cost. Whereas if he books cancellable flights and accomodation, he could cancel at no cost.

[Deleted User]

zagfles said:

emmajones1976 said:

Well that is known information now, anyone booking a holiday to Turkey knowing that is, quite frankly, an idiot.

Well obviously, the point is that the OP could book to somewhere else without such rules, and the rules could change to something like Turkey's between now and when they travel. And given package holidays to Turkey are still going ahead, the package is unlikely to be cancelled.

So the OP would either have to go despite the restrictions, or likely lose the whole cost. Whereas if he books cancellable flights and accomodation, he could cancel at no cost.

In that case the argument would be that the service has materially changed. It's not what they booked, and what they booked cannot be provided.

soolin

[Deleted User] said:

zagfles said:

emmajones1976 said:

Well that is known information now, anyone booking a holiday to Turkey knowing that is, quite frankly, an idiot.

Well obviously, the point is that the OP could book to somewhere else without such rules, and the rules could change to something like Turkey's between now and when they travel. And given package holidays to Turkey are still going ahead, the package is unlikely to be cancelled.

So the OP would either have to go despite the restrictions, or likely lose the whole cost. Whereas if he books cancellable flights and accomodation, he could cancel at no cost.

In that case the argument would be that the service has materially changed. It's not what they booked, and what they booked cannot be provided.

Would a requirement to wear a mask really be considered a material change to the service originally sold by the tour company though I wonder? After all travellers would already be aware that masks are required on their journey , changing the rule in a country on arrival doesn’t seem such a huge difference. Having said that I would be very disappointed to find a holiday that I thought would be almost ‘normal’ suddenly changed to having restrictions and yes perhaps my enjoyment would be a bit diminished , but a material change enough to get a full refund? I’m not convinced. 

michael1234

I think that would be a material change. Of course ultimately it would be for a judge to decide based on whether a reasonable person would consider it so. Its subjective and therefore hard to provide logical argument but for me at least, if I was intending to spend most of my time relaxing at sea and swimming in a pool, to have to wear a mask would be huge.

As for the original dilemma about the service being provided or not and therefore refundable or not consider in the days before Covid, what would happen if you fell ill two days before your holiday started? Unless you had travel insurance I doubt you could claim a refund simply because you couldn't make it. Surely this is a similiar situation?

Sandtree

michael1234 said:

I think that would be a material change. Of course ultimately it would be for a judge to decide based on whether a reasonable person would consider it so. Its subjective and therefore hard to provide logical argument but for me at least, if I was intending to spend most of my time relaxing at sea and swimming in a pool, to have to wear a mask would be huge.

As for the original dilemma about the service being provided or not and therefore refundable or not consider in the days before Covid, what would happen if you fell ill two days before your holiday started? Unless you had travel insurance I doubt you could claim a refund simply because you couldn't make it. Surely this is a similiar situation?

Absolutely one for a judge to ultimately opine on but whilst its a material impact to the enjoyment of the holiday I struggle to see how its a material change to the service of a flight and/or a hotel booking.

There does appear to be some exception on the mask wearing requirement for hotel owned pools/beaches (public beaches arent exempt) but struggling to find a governmental source that says one way or the other

eskbanker

michael1234 said:

I think that would be a material change. Of course ultimately it would be for a judge to decide based on whether a reasonable person would consider it so. Its subjective and therefore hard to provide logical argument but for me at least, if I was intending to spend most of my time relaxing at sea and swimming in a pool, to have to wear a mask would be huge.

While there will always be an element of subjectivity and reasonableness influencing judicial decisions, the primary consideration will always be the law - assuming the most recent posts relate to a package holiday (rather than OP's original premise of separate flight and accommodation bookings) then the Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018 will be the governing legislation, albeit various broader consumer rights legislation could potentially also be brought into play.

The PTRs do specify a range of characteristics which are deemed significant if changed by the package organiser, but imposition of mask wearing doesn't fall within these, so the only available route for action under this legislation would be cancellation and refund rights arising from "unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances occurring at the place of destination or its immediate vicinity and which significantly affect (a) the performance of the package, or (b) the carriage of passengers to the destination".

Personally I doubt that being required (by local or national public authorities) to wear masks could really be considered to 'significantly affect the performance of the package', but obviously we all agree that it would be judge's decision that carries more weight than forum posters - however, I don't believe that there have been any test cases yet, so all anyone can do is speculate, preferably supported by rational analysis!

[Deleted User]

soolin said:

[Deleted User] said:

zagfles said:

emmajones1976 said:

Well that is known information now, anyone booking a holiday to Turkey knowing that is, quite frankly, an idiot.

Well obviously, the point is that the OP could book to somewhere else without such rules, and the rules could change to something like Turkey's between now and when they travel. And given package holidays to Turkey are still going ahead, the package is unlikely to be cancelled.

So the OP would either have to go despite the restrictions, or likely lose the whole cost. Whereas if he books cancellable flights and accomodation, he could cancel at no cost.

In that case the argument would be that the service has materially changed. It's not what they booked, and what they booked cannot be provided.

Would a requirement to wear a mask really be considered a material change to the service originally sold by the tour company though I wonder? After all travellers would already be aware that masks are required on their journey , changing the rule in a country on arrival doesn’t seem such a huge difference. Having said that I would be very disappointed to find a holiday that I thought would be almost ‘normal’ suddenly changed to having restrictions and yes perhaps my enjoyment would be a bit diminished , but a material change enough to get a full refund? I’m not convinced. 

Hard to say but I got the impression that it was more than just mask wearing, some events cancelled entirely.