Very small cars - the future of EV??

turbopete

Grumpy_chap said:

The idea of a small economic car for most of the time and then hire a car for other journeys warranting a larger car could well be a sound approach.

The devil will be in the detail.

not much use when the hire cars are also all electric and you need to do something like tow a trailer or cart a family and luggage around.

turbopete

k6chris said:

I have fallen in love with the Citroen Ami, a tiny, cheap and low range EV which would suit 90% of my journeys, albeit only about 50% of my mileage. Am I completely misguided or is the segment likely to catch on and grow??

yes you are completely misguided in my opinion. if a car doesnt do everything you will need it to do then its not a good buy. likewise if (as is the case with 4x4s) it does things by design that you will NEVER need it to do (ie go off road, in the case of a 4x4) then again its a poor buy!

turbopete

shinytop said:

fred990 said:

Cool, exactly the kind of car that I'd be looking for. Perfect for when no huge suv types are allowed nor 'ludicrous performance' ones either. HGV's will have to be off the roads too. 

In the meantime we'll stick to conventional estate types until they conk out. 

I agree. EVs to date are simply replicating their ICE predecessors.  The EV evengelists continuallly repeat that nobody needs a 400 mile range all the time, 90% of journeys less than X miles, etc. .  Well nobody needs a 5 seat 2.5 tonne SUV that can do 0-60 in 5 seconds all of the time either. 

I hope this sort of thing does catch on and that uneccessarily big EVs are taxed more so they do.  

i remember when very few ICE cars had much over 400 miles of range due to smaller fuel tanks (47l as opposed to over 60 in my current car) BUT unlike EVs they didnt take LITERALLY hours to get your 400 miles of range back. as for all the 'you only use X amount of range for 90% of journeys' well thats all fine and dandy UNTIL you need the car for those other 10% of trips when its a royal pain in the neck, or if, like many where im originally from, you need to tow a trailer (or you are a caravanner for example) then EVs are seldom type approved for towing and the handful that are run at roughly half range when towing, exaggerating the range/recharge time ratio problem even further! i did some very rough calculations once that said a 300 mile range Tesla that could tow would take (stopping overnight each night) about 5 days to drive from north england to south of france towing a caravan. something like a Mondeo diesel (again assuming half range and stopping overnight) would do the same trip in 2 days. so 4 days holiday from a fortnight out of work, or 10 days holiday during the same fortnight. which would you prefer?

jimbo6977

If you want a small 2 seat electric French "car" (actually a quadricycle for licensing and taxation purposes) then Aixam already make them. 

https://www.aixam.com/en/e-aixam-range

BOWFER

turbopete said:

k6chris said:

I have fallen in love with the Citroen Ami, a tiny, cheap and low range EV which would suit 90% of my journeys, albeit only about 50% of my mileage. Am I completely misguided or is the segment likely to catch on and grow??

yes you are completely misguided in my opinion. if a car doesnt do everything you will need it to do then its not a good buy.

And there we have it, the reason people drive around themselves in massive cars 95% of the time.
Because if it doesn't cater for that one time they need to collect lengths of wood from B+Q, it's "not a good buy"

Grumpy_chap

jimbo6977 said:

If you want a small 2 seat electric French "car" (actually a quadricycle for licensing and taxation purposes) then Aixam already make them. 

https://www.aixam.com/en/e-aixam-range

Except double the price and equally as compromised as the Citroen, making it even more pointless.

jimbo6977

Grumpy_chap said:

jimbo6977 said:

If you want a small 2 seat electric French "car" (actually a quadricycle for licensing and taxation purposes) then Aixam already make them. 

https://www.aixam.com/en/e-aixam-range

Except double the price and equally as compromised as the Citroen, making it even more pointless.

The Ami is a 4 wheeled scooter with the (total lack of) comfort or equipment that implies, whereas the Aixams are scaled down cars. 

If you live anywhere warm you might as well have a scooter as an Ami and save yourself EUR 5000.

If you live anywhere cold the Ami will be too uncomfortable and you'll buy a car, or maybe an Aixam. 

The Ami will be bought by what the French call "bobos" as a fashion accessory. 

BOWFER

jimbo6977 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

jimbo6977 said:

If you want a small 2 seat electric French "car" (actually a quadricycle for licensing and taxation purposes) then Aixam already make them. 

https://www.aixam.com/en/e-aixam-range

Except double the price and equally as compromised as the Citroen, making it even more pointless.

The Ami is a 4 wheeled scooter with the (total lack of) comfort or equipment that implies, whereas the Aixams are scaled down cars. 

If you live anywhere warm you might as well have a scooter as an Ami and save yourself EUR 5000.

If you live anywhere cold the Ami will be too uncomfortable and you'll buy a car, or maybe an Aixam. 

The Ami will be bought by what the French call "bobos" as a fashion accessory. 

Have you ever ridden a scooter/moped?
They're really not much fun, the lack of speed means you're bullied into the gutter.
Even as a motorcyclist myself I'd think twice about my daughter getting one.
The Ami though, far less concerning - be quite happy for her to get one at 15/16.
I imagine there'd be a healthy market for used ones, effectively 'passing them down' young users until they're old enough to get a full-size car.

Herzlos

turbopete said:

k6chris said:

I have fallen in love with the Citroen Ami, a tiny, cheap and low range EV which would suit 90% of my journeys, albeit only about 50% of my mileage. Am I completely misguided or is the segment likely to catch on and grow??

yes you are completely misguided in my opinion. if a car doesnt do everything you will need it to do then its not a good buy. likewise if (as is the case with 4x4s) it does things by design that you will NEVER need it to do (ie go off road, in the case of a 4x4) then again its a poor buy!

So do you drive about in a full sized van every day so you can handle an annual trip to ikea?

The idea that a car needs to do everything all the time is nonsense. Most cars spend the bulk of their moving time with a single driver, 4 empty seats and an empty boot, adding to congestion, taking up loads of parking space, etc.

If we moved away from a huge "I must be able to do everything" mindset to being able to use a minimal vehicle and rent bigger as required, then everything would be so much more efficient and easier.

Herzlos

turbopete said:

Grumpy_chap said:

The idea of a small economic car for most of the time and then hire a car for other journeys warranting a larger car could well be a sound approach.

The devil will be in the detail.

not much use when the hire cars are also all electric and you need to do something like tow a trailer or cart a family and luggage around.

There's no reason that hire cars couldn't be hydrogen powered, or much bigger EV's.

The lack of towing capacity on anything except the Tesla Model X and I think the Polestar certainly is a hinderance, as there's a real gap in the market. If there was any "normal" family EV available with any towing ability I'd have ordered it already. So  I'm considering going for a huge family EV and a small petrol car for when I need to tow.