Knocking through wall, structural engineer or builder first?

ChasingtheWelshdream

Our SE charged £300 and spent a good hour in the house measuring and assessing. Then produced accurate drawings and several pages of detailed calculations. 

In the scheme of things, I thought that was quite reasonable for professional expertise.

thegreenone

In some cases an SE will liaise with the council and that can take an inordinate amount of time.

Hubby charges around £300 but it does all depend on what's required.  Yes, he does always visit! 

Bendy_House

Jeez, such analysis.

Yes, the £95 guy was cheap, no question. But utterly reputable and well known - and used by many local Archis in the 'hood. It was literally a case of him considering it a bit of 'pocket money' he was happy to squeeze in 'on the way home'. He clearly enjoyed his work, and hung around and had a good chat about the house and my sis's plans for it

£400 guy was part of a 'glossy' outfit. It struck me as expensive at the time, and in retrospect still does - for the time.

The BCO - now I person I've had repeated dealings with - is straight. His 'non-recommendation' of these two were as legit and honourable as you'd hope.

There endeth the story. No concerns. One quote was a bargain, and the other very much top-end.

That's as complex as this story is.

NQManchester

Depending where you live and the demand for builders at the moment you will probably find it easier to get quotes if you already have the plans/calcs in place and the builder can see you are serious and they aren’t wasting their time. My recent experience is that they’re too busy to do lots of quotes so are picking and choosing. 
It is frustrating that it delays things so much when there’s long waits so good luck!

rob7475

I'm not sure a SE is always needed. My builders (who I've known since childhood) removed the load bearing wall between our kitchen and dining room. They dealt with building control and as they'd done 100's of similar jobs, knew what size steel was needed. All their work was signed off by building control with no questions about SE calculations.

Section62

rob7475 said:

I'm not sure a SE is always needed. My builders (who I've known since childhood) removed the load bearing wall between our kitchen and dining room. They dealt with building control and as they'd done 100's of similar jobs, knew what size steel was needed. All their work was signed off by building control with no questions about SE calculations.

Removing a wall isn't just about what size of beam is required.  Which is the point of needing SE involvement.

Sometimes BC are willing to act as a surrogate SE if the job is straightforward and they know the builder is reliable - for example checking whether lateral support is an issue is something a BCO can do just as easily as a SE.

At the end of the day it depends on how 'helpful' the local BC department are, and how much they stick to the letter.

But the main point it comes back to for the customer is having a good builder they can trust to do the job properly.

You could, but on the whole people are taking pot luck when they approach a builder for advice first.  The quality of that advice can be extremely variable, and most people have no way of telling whether or not the advice they get is good or not.

daivid

rob7475 said:

I'm not sure a SE is always needed. My builders (who I've known since childhood) removed the load bearing wall between our kitchen and dining room. They dealt with building control and as they'd done 100's of similar jobs, knew what size steel was needed. All their work was signed off by building control with no questions about SE calculations.

Or knew what size steel would almost certainly do? Anecdotally*, the 'good' builders round here who don't bother with SEs use a standard size beam, get the work signed off and their work stands the test of time. However the 'standard beam' they use can be far bigger than needed which may or may not matter to the homeowner. To me it did as I wanted an open, light kitchen dinner. I ended up with a beam a size up (due to availability) from that deemed necessary from the plans/calculations yet the beam and it's encasement are half the height and width of the 'builders standard' (despite being more than comfortably over strength). I was also DIYing the job so wanted the lightest beam to make manoeuvring it as easy as possible - but that won't be a consideration for many. 

Furthermore (as stated earlier in the thread) it is not the legal consequences that are potentially the most severe when making structural changes to your home, for that reason alone I would always have an SE visit and calcs/plans drawn up. 


 *Based on conversations I had with my BCO, the Builder's merchants and 2 conversations with people who had work done by trusted builders (without SE).

lhg91

Just an update, I got a quote from another engineer for £250 + VAT for visit, calculations and appropriate report for building regs, and can schedule it all in as soon as is required. I contacted the local building controls for some advice as to how to proceed but they just attached the form and pricing for applications. Anyway, I have a good idea of what to do now.

Unfortunately contacted a couple of local builders who are busy until August next year, so that looks like it will be the sticking point now!

Bendy_House

lhg91 said:

Just an update, I got a quote from another engineer for £250 + VAT for visit, calculations and appropriate report for building regs, and can schedule it all in as soon as is required. I contacted the local building controls for some advice as to how to proceed but they just attached the form and pricing for applications. Anyway, I have a good idea of what to do now.

Unfortunately contacted a couple of local builders who are busy until August next year, so that looks like it will be the sticking point now!

Ouch!

Keep trying for other builders - this is, what?, a 2-day job? This should be squeezable-in between larger jobs, or some will fancy an extra income for a weekend's work, for example.

Use your local Facebook page for recommendations, but carry out due diligence on the recommendations. It's good if a suggested builder gets positive back-ups from other seemingly unconnected FB users.

Section62

Bendy_House said:

Keep trying for other builders - this is, what?, a 2-day job? This should be squeezable-in between larger jobs, or some will fancy an extra income for a weekend's work, for example.

Use your local Facebook page for recommendations, but carry out due diligence on the recommendations. It's good if a suggested builder gets positive back-ups from other seemingly unconnected FB users.

I'd suggest with the building industry as it currently is, the OP is going to get limited interest from good builders until they have actually purchased the house and moved in.  At this stage a builder might take the view that the OP is only interested in whether they can afford their dream home - and the job (if it ever materialises) isn't going to happen for quite a long time.  (no criticism of the OP is intended, just reflecting what a builder might perceive the situation of any house buyer to be)

Also, just saying, there is no reliable way of telling from FB whether or not two users are unconnected.  It isn't too difficult to set up multiple fake accounts and praise yourself to the skies.

As a general rule I'd only rely on social media to rule people out, rather than as a positive thing.  The last thing I'd want is a builder who spends much of their time messaging mates and customers via SM rather than getting on with knocking through the wall I'm paying them to do.  So maybe someone who was recommended by word of mouth/SM, but not someone who is on SM all the time themselves (obviously excepting the people who regularly use this forum ).