Knocking through wall, structural engineer or builder first?

lhg91

We are currently in the process of buying a house where we plan to knock through the kitchen into the dining room. We have a feeling that it may be a supporting wall based upon another house on the street and also that there is another wall directly above it upstairs, so will have to get a structural engineer in eventually.

I contacted a local SE who is booked until March next year but is prepared to give prepare a Fee Proposal for us. My question is, would it be better to get in a builder to take a look at the wall first and determine if it is load bearing before getting the SE out, or get the SE out first? We haven't made any major structural changes to a home we have had before, so not sure what the best route is!

Thanks in advance

stuart45

A good builder can determine if it's a load bearing wall, although an SE can do the calcs. The builder could give you an idea of the cost. If there's a wall on top of it that's a pretty good clue to it being load bearing.

Doozergirl

Structural engineer first.  You shouldn't be relying on a builder to tell you.  Someone that isn't reputable will just tell you what think you want to hear, which is the cheapest option without building control and structural engineers - the checks and balances.  

You can definitely find a structural
engineer that is available before March,  what's that about?!   Just try someone else.  

As builders, if there is a wall
above, it's getting run past our SE, regardless.  

TELLIT01

The OP could ask a builder to give an estimate of cost for the work on the basis that it is a load bearing wall and will require structural steel.  If a SE later says it's not load bearing they have lost nothing.

ChasingtheWelshdream

We have just done this, and had originally asked a couple of builders for feasibility/estimate.

The good guys wouldn’t give a proper quote without seeing SE calculations (although gave their opinion). The ones that said Building Regs were not required were very quickly crossed off our list.

We then got got calculations done, went back to the builders for a price, submitted a building notice and had the work done.

We had to wait a long time for the work to be done (random things conspiring) but Building Inspector signed off last week.

It has made a huge difference to the layout so we’ll worth the wait.

Belenus

Doozergirl said:

Structural engineer first.  You shouldn't be relying on a builder to tell you.  Someone that isn't reputable will just tell you what think you want to hear, which is the cheapest option without building control and structural engineers - the checks and balances.  

So true.

There is O'Reilly, there is Stubbs and there is everything in between.

stuart45

It depends on the builder. I have often given people a rough idea of the price in advance. After you have done plenty of knock throughs you normally have a good idea of what size steel the SE is going to come up with. They do sometimes get their calcs wrong as well.

Section62

stuart45 said:

It depends on the builder. I have often given people a rough idea of the price in advance. After you have done plenty of knock throughs you normally have a good idea of what size steel the SE is going to come up with. They do sometimes get their calcs wrong as well.

I agree with both you and Doozergirl - a good builder will be able to tell whether a wall is likely to be loadbearing, and better still will almost certainly know of good structural engineers in the local area.  A guide to the likely cost of the project could also avoid spending money on a SE and then discovering the job is too expensive for their budget.

The problem for folks like the OP is finding a good builder... and not one of the many who don't have a clue and will persuade the unwary client that calcs and building regs are a completely unnecessary and expensive waste of time.

If only there was a way for people to reliably find good competent builders.....

daivid

At some point in the project you will need an structural engineer (or civil who does this work) as you need a definitive answer as to wether support will be needed and if so you will need calculations and plans. 

With all respect to the previous posters who have shown themselves to be very knowledgeable on many many occasions I don't think talk of 'is there a wall above?' is particularly helpful. Absolutely the presence of a solid wall above is a big clue but if your upstairs walls are lightweight then they all can be sitting happily on the beams and presence of a wall below is just chance. More importantly the lack of a wall above doesn't tell you support is not needed. For my knock through an rsj was needed to support a long span that was to be created by the removal of the supporting wall. I don't think my straw filled (yes really!) upstairs walls make up that much of the load (and none of them are above the removed wall).

lhg91

Thankyou all for your replies, they've been super helpful!

In advance of contacting a builder to see if they know of any SE's (I'm struggling to find any other than the one who isnt available until March), does anyone by any chance know of a good SE in the North-East (Durham/Newcastle) way?

Section62

lhg91 said:

Thankyou all for your replies, they've been super helpful!

In advance of contacting a builder to see if they know of any SE's (I'm struggling to find any other than the one who isnt available until March), does anyone by any chance know of a good SE in the North-East (Durham/Newcastle) way?

Chartered Structural Engineers will often be members of the Institution of Structural Engineers.  Their website has information and a search tool which you might find useful.

https://www.istructe.org/find-an-engineer/structural-engineers-near-me/