Assured Shorthold Tenancy Ending. Landlord re-let property.

canaldumidi

It is, I suppose,  just possible that the agent is as ignorant as their email suggests. Much more likely they know full well how the law, and ASTs, work and are lying to you. But either way

* an AST does NOT end when the fixed term expires (ie January) UNLESS the tenant leaves.

* if the tenant stays, the tenancy becomes Periodic (rolling month by month) - this continues for ever or until either the tenant serves notice or a court ends the tenancy

* if the landlord/agents want to end the tenancy, whether in January or any time after that in a periodic tenancy, he must serve a S21 Notice, wait 2 months, then apply to a court (which can take another 6+ months...)

Read:

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

I would NOT reply to the agent at this time. If you do reply, explaining the above and saying you will be staying, they may simply immediately serve a S21 which would allow them to apply to court in January (2 months from now).

By not continuing the dialogue with them, they may not do this, so why encourage them to take action?

I would normally encourage LLs and tenants to communicate their intentions, to facilitate departure (or remaining) and to maintain relations, but in this case, with an agent so blatantly ignorant or currupt (one or the other!) I recommend doing.... nothing.

Let them email you if they wish. Don't respond. If they ring, simply say "Sorry - it's a bad time I can't talk right now'" and hang up.

When it gets to Jan and the fixed term ends, just remain and carry on.

If you have ANY concern they might use a key to come in, let another tenant in, or move you out, CHANGE THE LOCKS. Keep the original to replace when you do eventually leave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXAo7zSN-9o

https://www.diy.com/ideas-advice/how-to-change-different-types-of-door-locks/CC_npcart_4100001.art

3card

canaldumidi said:

It is, I suppose,  just possible that the agent is as ignorant as their email suggests. Much more likely they know full well how the law, and ASTs, work and are lying to you. But either way

* an AST does NOT end when the fixed term expires (ie January) UNLESS the tenant leaves.

* if the tenant stays, the tenancy becomes Periodic (rolling month by month) - this continues for ever or until either the tenant serves notice or a court ends the tenancy

* if the landlord/agents want to end the tenancy, whether in January or any time after that in a periodic tenancy, he must serve a S21 Notice, wait 2 months, then apply to a court (which can take another 6+ months...)

Read:

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

I would NOT reply to the agent at this time. If you do reply, explaining the above and saying you will be staying, they may simply immediately serve a S21 which would allow them to apply to court in January (2 months from now).

By not continuing the dialogue with them, they may not do this, so why encourage them to take action?

I would normally encourage LLs and tenants to communicate their intentions, to facilitate departure (or remaining) and to maintain relations, but in this case, with an agent so blatantly ignorant or currupt (one or the other!) I recommend doing.... nothing.

Let them email you if they wish. Don't respond. If they ring, simply say "Sorry - it's a bad time I can't talk right now'" and hang up.

When it gets to Jan and the fixed term ends, just remain and carry on.

If you have ANY concern they might use a key to come in, let another tenant in, or move you out, CHANGE THE LOCKS. Keep the original to replace when you do eventually leave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXAo7zSN-9o

https://www.diy.com/ideas-advice/how-to-change-different-types-of-door-locks/CC_npcart_4100001.art

Can they serve a S21 if the deposit hasnt been protected??

MaryNB

3card said:

canaldumidi said:

It is, I suppose,  just possible that the agent is as ignorant as their email suggests. Much more likely they know full well how the law, and ASTs, work and are lying to you. But either way

* an AST does NOT end when the fixed term expires (ie January) UNLESS the tenant leaves.

* if the tenant stays, the tenancy becomes Periodic (rolling month by month) - this continues for ever or until either the tenant serves notice or a court ends the tenancy

* if the landlord/agents want to end the tenancy, whether in January or any time after that in a periodic tenancy, he must serve a S21 Notice, wait 2 months, then apply to a court (which can take another 6+ months...)

Read:

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

I would NOT reply to the agent at this time. If you do reply, explaining the above and saying you will be staying, they may simply immediately serve a S21 which would allow them to apply to court in January (2 months from now).

By not continuing the dialogue with them, they may not do this, so why encourage them to take action?

I would normally encourage LLs and tenants to communicate their intentions, to facilitate departure (or remaining) and to maintain relations, but in this case, with an agent so blatantly ignorant or currupt (one or the other!) I recommend doing.... nothing.

Let them email you if they wish. Don't respond. If they ring, simply say "Sorry - it's a bad time I can't talk right now'" and hang up.

When it gets to Jan and the fixed term ends, just remain and carry on.

If you have ANY concern they might use a key to come in, let another tenant in, or move you out, CHANGE THE LOCKS. Keep the original to replace when you do eventually leave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXAo7zSN-9o

https://www.diy.com/ideas-advice/how-to-change-different-types-of-door-locks/CC_npcart_4100001.art

Can they serve a S21 if the deposit hasnt been protected??

Nope. They can't serve a valid S21 if it wasn't protected or was protected late. If the deposit wasn't protected within 30 days they need to return the deposit in full before they can issue a valid S21. 

canaldumidi

3card said:

canaldumidi said:

It is, I suppose,  just possible that the agent is as ignorant as their email suggests. Much more likely they know full well how the law, and ASTs, work and are lying to you. But either way

* an AST does NOT end when the fixed term expires (ie January) UNLESS the tenant leaves.

* if the tenant stays, the tenancy becomes Periodic (rolling month by month) - this continues for ever or until either the tenant serves notice or a court ends the tenancy

* if the landlord/agents want to end the tenancy, whether in January or any time after that in a periodic tenancy, he must serve a S21 Notice, wait 2 months, then apply to a court (which can take another 6+ months...)

Read:

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

I would NOT reply to the agent at this time. If you do reply, explaining the above and saying you will be staying, they may simply immediately serve a S21 which would allow them to apply to court in January (2 months from now).

By not continuing the dialogue with them, they may not do this, so why encourage them to take action?

I would normally encourage LLs and tenants to communicate their intentions, to facilitate departure (or remaining) and to maintain relations, but in this case, with an agent so blatantly ignorant or currupt (one or the other!) I recommend doing.... nothing.

Let them email you if they wish. Don't respond. If they ring, simply say "Sorry - it's a bad time I can't talk right now'" and hang up.

When it gets to Jan and the fixed term ends, just remain and carry on.

If you have ANY concern they might use a key to come in, let another tenant in, or move you out, CHANGE THE LOCKS. Keep the original to replace when you do eventually leave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXAo7zSN-9o

https://www.diy.com/ideas-advice/how-to-change-different-types-of-door-locks/CC_npcart_4100001.art

Can they serve a S21 if the deposit hasnt been protected??

Good point. Yes they can serve it, but as it would be invalid the court would dismiss it (when it eventually went to court) and refuse to grant the LL possession. The LL would then have to return the deposit and start again with a new S21.

RAS

The OP needs to check all three schemes not just the DPS.

Basically the OP gets the S21, does nothing until they get a court date and then alerts the LL to their failure. So the LL can return the deposit and look to re-issue the S21. Likely the tenant will be long gone by then.

In practice, once the OP is pretty sure their purchase is going through, it might be worth alerting to the LL and getting the deposit returned before giving notice? 

Grumpy_chap

MaryNB said:

Nope. They can't serve a valid S21 if it wasn't protected or was protected late. If the deposit wasn't protected within 30 days they need to return the deposit in full before they can issue a valid S21. 

The OP does not need to tell the EA / LL that though.  Wait until the incorrect service is noted, then let them know at the OP's convenience - all helps to add time to the process.

The OP seems unsure whether the deposit is protected.  If it is not, I think there is a penalty that the OP can benefit from.

MaryNB

RAS said:

The OP needs to check all three schemes not just the DPS.

Basically the OP gets the S21, does nothing until they get a court date and then alerts the LL to their failure. So the LL can return the deposit and look to re-issue the S21. Likely the tenant will be long gone by then.

In practice, once the OP is pretty sure their purchase is going through, it might be worth alerting to the LL and getting the deposit returned before giving notice? 

Even if it is protected, the OP said they never receive the prescribed info so the LA/LL still messed up and can't issue a valid S21. 

Craigyboy_2

Really appreciate all of the advice here - thank you!

Wee update: the agent has now come back saying that the only way we can stay is if we take over the lease from another tenant in a different apartment as they need to end early due to personal reasons. It would mean us moving to a different apartment in the same building, and signing for the remainder of their agreement.

She said that’s the best offer as someone else has now signed for our apartment in January and there’s nothing more she can do - We simply cannot stay in this apartment beyond January.

Needless to say we won’t be taking that offer. We’ll hold off and then send that email a little closer to the time to say we intend to stay.

980233

Craigyboy_2 said:

Really appreciate all of the advice here - thank you!

Wee update: the agent has now come back saying that the only way we can stay is if we take over the lease from another tenant in a different apartment as they need to end early due to personal reasons. It would mean us moving to a different apartment in the same building, and signing for the remainder of their agreement.

She said that’s the best offer as someone else has now signed for our apartment in January and there’s nothing more she can do - We simply cannot stay in this apartment beyond January.

Needless to say we won’t be taking that offer. We’ll hold off and then send that email a little closer to the time to say we intend to stay.

Wow they really are that dumb.

saajan_12

Craigyboy_2 said:

Really appreciate all of the advice here - thank you!

Wee update: the agent has now come back saying that the only way we can stay is if we take over the lease from another tenant in a different apartment as they need to end early due to personal reasons. It would mean us moving to a different apartment in the same building, and signing for the remainder of their agreement.

She said that’s the best offer as someone else has now signed for our apartment in January and there’s nothing more she can do - We simply cannot stay in this apartment beyond January.

Needless to say we won’t be taking that offer. We’ll hold off and then send that email a little closer to the time to say we intend to stay.

Since they seem to be doubling down on their position, just to check- you are on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy right? Not a holiday let / excluded occupier ?