Refused Mortgage Over And Over

Radicalrooster

kayleighali said:

Just wanted to clarify something as it's not a situation I have come across before...you say you pay HMRC by DD, where is this sent and how do they know to allocate to your record? Like someone above has said, this would normally be sent to HMRC under and employer PAYE reference (or AO reference for payment) but that wouldn't be the case here and might be a contributory factor in what's going wrong.

Have you checked your Personal Tax Account to see what that shows your status as?

Thanks @kayleighali if I'm honest I don't know the answer to your question.

I hired an accountant that does all this for me, I simply see i my current account a DD to HMRC a few days/a week after being paid.

I tried logging into the HMRC area for Personal tax Account, but after a few tries I can't get in unfortunately. Would my accountant have my status?

Radicalrooster

Thrugelmir said:

Radicalrooster said:

Thrugelmir said:

Radicalrooster said:

Deleted_User said:

Radicalrooster said:

Ok so I've gone and scared myself.

I found this thread about someone who applied for three mortgages at once and then got a fraud marker - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6163507/unfair-fraud-markers-placed/p1

I am worried that since I have applied for a number of mortgages since September that this may also happen to me...

I must note - I applied one at a time and based on advisor's recommendations, but the fact is I have been declined by three lenders in the space of two months.

(When I mentioned Halifax and Nationwide earlier, those were phone calls only, not applications).

It is more likely to happen if you have multiple brokers inputting data for you.  A few typos here and there and it can appear that information it being changed to try get an approval.   

Obviously you are pretty desperate at this point but i would suggest only moving forward with a single person to reduce the chances of information being different across applications.  

Re the actual case, if you were employed via an umbrella company it would be significantly easier for you but as it is at the moment you only have (on my list anyway) 13 lenders who will currently lend on foreign income.  You have been declined by a few so it really shouldnt take long for the broker to pick up the phone to business managers and lay the case out.  As you go down to the smaller lenders it is much easier to speak to an underwriter pre applicaiton rather than just a telephone agent so hopefully they can find a solution. 

If it was me, I would be asking the business manager / underwriter of the lenders left to assess the basic case documents without an application going in.  That way no one wastes their time

I should point out - I have been paid in USD two out of the six months I have been employed. My employer has been flexible, so technically the money entering my account is in GBP direct from the employer.

Contractually are you are paid in US $ though?  The fact you receive GDP simply means that your employer is incurring the exchange fees. 

Yes my contract is in USD, however my employer has said they are happy to pay in GBP.

I believe they convert the amount first and then send me the GBP.

You are exposed to flutuations in the $ £ exchange rate. If the £ were to return to a rate of say $1.65. Then your income would drop by around 20%. 

This is true, I have been told mortgage lenders use a particular conversion tool and go by 80% of the result.

The times I have been paid in USD, my employer has sent funds to my Wise account so I can choose when to exchange into GBP.

For payment in GBP my employer has been quite reasonable and the rate of exchange has been quite good.

My salary does vary month to month but only by £100 or so at most (so far, I completely understand this could change).

amnblog

Who is listed as your Employer?

Do not be surprised if the unorthodox nature of your pay slips has raised alarms bells with lender 1 and you have been listed as trying a potentially fraudulent application - this has flagged up with lender 2.....

kayleighali

Radicalrooster said:

kayleighali said:

Just wanted to clarify something as it's not a situation I have come across before...you say you pay HMRC by DD, where is this sent and how do they know to allocate to your record? Like someone above has said, this would normally be sent to HMRC under and employer PAYE reference (or AO reference for payment) but that wouldn't be the case here and might be a contributory factor in what's going wrong.

Have you checked your Personal Tax Account to see what that shows your status as?

Thanks @kayleighali if I'm honest I don't know the answer to your question.

I hired an accountant that does all this for me, I simply see i my current account a DD to HMRC a few days/a week after being paid.

I tried logging into the HMRC area for Personal tax Account, but after a few tries I can't get in unfortunately. Would my accountant have my status?

Definitely speak to your accountant on this one. The contributions are either going to HMRC with you showing as an employee (in which case there must be an associated PAYE reference number which will assist with the mortgage issue) or as a self-employed person. Knowing how the contributions are being paid to HMRC will help you give the right information to the banks. 

If you look at it from a purely simplistic point of view, you are telling the banks you are an employee but don't have anything concrete to back that up (in their eyes). Your employer should have already set up a PAYE reference number as they are paying someone in the UK, the fact that they are a US company simply means that it is a slightly different type of scheme which is required to ensure they are not liable for employers NI contributions. I'd check with your accountant if this is perhaps what has been done, if not, it should be done as a matter of urgency to ensure your contributions are being allocated to the correct place and it doesn't come back to bite you on the bum further down the line. More info can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/register-employer/y/yes/yes

Radicalrooster

amnblog said:

Who is listed as your Employer?

Do not be surprised if the unorthodox nature of your pay slips has raised alarms bells with lender 1 and you have been listed as trying a potentially fraudulent application - this has flagged up with lender 2.....

On my payslips? No one. It doesn't say an employer. Which I guess could look weird and you're right, could be the ultimate reason.

Speaking to a different mortgage advisor (recommended to me and purely for advice) they said it's likely we're on the Hunter system for fraud because I've been framed as employed, but the lenders sees me as self employed, even though I am technically employed. So it looks like I've been fiddling the system.

So in essence yes, you could be spot on.

Any advice for where I go from here @amnblog ? I have been suggested to try building societies who take a more manual approach.

Radicalrooster

kayleighali said:

Radicalrooster said:

kayleighali said:

Just wanted to clarify something as it's not a situation I have come across before...you say you pay HMRC by DD, where is this sent and how do they know to allocate to your record? Like someone above has said, this would normally be sent to HMRC under and employer PAYE reference (or AO reference for payment) but that wouldn't be the case here and might be a contributory factor in what's going wrong.

Have you checked your Personal Tax Account to see what that shows your status as?

Thanks @kayleighali if I'm honest I don't know the answer to your question.

I hired an accountant that does all this for me, I simply see i my current account a DD to HMRC a few days/a week after being paid.

I tried logging into the HMRC area for Personal tax Account, but after a few tries I can't get in unfortunately. Would my accountant have my status?

Definitely speak to your accountant on this one. The contributions are either going to HMRC with you showing as an employee (in which case there must be an associated PAYE reference number which will assist with the mortgage issue) or as a self-employed person. Knowing how the contributions are being paid to HMRC will help you give the right information to the banks. 

If you look at it from a purely simplistic point of view, you are telling the banks you are an employee but don't have anything concrete to back that up (in their eyes). Your employer should have already set up a PAYE reference number as they are paying someone in the UK, the fact that they are a US company simply means that it is a slightly different type of scheme which is required to ensure they are not liable for employers NI contributions. I'd check with your accountant if this is perhaps what has been done, if not, it should be done as a matter of urgency to ensure your contributions are being allocated to the correct place and it doesn't come back to bite you on the bum further down the line. More info can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/register-employer/y/yes/yes

Thank you @kayleighali this is very worrying and I have contacted my accountant.

I will be very upset if we have lost the house, fees, time and I have been added to the Hunter database all because of their 'recommended' setup of my PAYE and NI.

biscan25

A possible reason why they are not stating why your mortgage has been rejected:
Could this constitute "tipping off" which carries personal liability on the part of the employee?
I work in the financial services and we have to be very careful about not making the client aware if we have any suspicions about any fraudulent activity.

Radicalrooster

biscan25 said:

A possible reason why they are not stating why your mortgage has been rejected:
Could this constitute "tipping off" which carries personal liability on the part of the employee?
I work in the financial services and we have to be very careful about not making the client aware if we have any suspicions about any fraudulent activity.

I am starting to think this is the case @biscan25

I understand completely - If you are dealing with someone who is potentially dodgy, you don't want to tell them so in order for them to then adjust their approach!

I guess where I am at a loss is, while yes my set up is confusing, I have so much more 'evidence' to back up what I say including my contract, letters from HMRC, my employer and my accountants.

As awful as this makes me feel, I feel some solice in now knowing the potential reasons for beign declined.

kayleighali

Radicalrooster said:

kayleighali said:

Radicalrooster said:

kayleighali said:

Just wanted to clarify something as it's not a situation I have come across before...you say you pay HMRC by DD, where is this sent and how do they know to allocate to your record? Like someone above has said, this would normally be sent to HMRC under and employer PAYE reference (or AO reference for payment) but that wouldn't be the case here and might be a contributory factor in what's going wrong.

Have you checked your Personal Tax Account to see what that shows your status as?

Thanks @kayleighali if I'm honest I don't know the answer to your question.

I hired an accountant that does all this for me, I simply see i my current account a DD to HMRC a few days/a week after being paid.

I tried logging into the HMRC area for Personal tax Account, but after a few tries I can't get in unfortunately. Would my accountant have my status?

Definitely speak to your accountant on this one. The contributions are either going to HMRC with you showing as an employee (in which case there must be an associated PAYE reference number which will assist with the mortgage issue) or as a self-employed person. Knowing how the contributions are being paid to HMRC will help you give the right information to the banks. 

If you look at it from a purely simplistic point of view, you are telling the banks you are an employee but don't have anything concrete to back that up (in their eyes). Your employer should have already set up a PAYE reference number as they are paying someone in the UK, the fact that they are a US company simply means that it is a slightly different type of scheme which is required to ensure they are not liable for employers NI contributions. I'd check with your accountant if this is perhaps what has been done, if not, it should be done as a matter of urgency to ensure your contributions are being allocated to the correct place and it doesn't come back to bite you on the bum further down the line. More info can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/register-employer/y/yes/yes

Thank you @kayleighali this is very worrying and I have contacted my accountant.

I will be very upset if we have lost the house, fees, time and I have been added to the Hunter database all because of their 'recommended' setup of my PAYE and NI.

I completely agree and would feel the same, fingers crossed it's just some miscommunication and everything is set up correctly in the background. Unfortunately, on many occasions, the accountant may be very well versed on individual tax matters but not quite up to speed on employer tax matters. This can lead to the information being sent to the wrong place and massive fines accrued - not that I am saying you will be fined, just an example how a small misunderstanding on legislation can snowball with no malice intended!

If your accountant is contracted by both you and your employer then they should be able to set the PAYE scheme up on their behalf, this task shouldn't fall to you

Radicalrooster

kayleighali said:

Radicalrooster said:

kayleighali said:

Radicalrooster said:

kayleighali said:

Just wanted to clarify something as it's not a situation I have come across before...you say you pay HMRC by DD, where is this sent and how do they know to allocate to your record? Like someone above has said, this would normally be sent to HMRC under and employer PAYE reference (or AO reference for payment) but that wouldn't be the case here and might be a contributory factor in what's going wrong.

Have you checked your Personal Tax Account to see what that shows your status as?

Thanks @kayleighali if I'm honest I don't know the answer to your question.

I hired an accountant that does all this for me, I simply see i my current account a DD to HMRC a few days/a week after being paid.

I tried logging into the HMRC area for Personal tax Account, but after a few tries I can't get in unfortunately. Would my accountant have my status?

Definitely speak to your accountant on this one. The contributions are either going to HMRC with you showing as an employee (in which case there must be an associated PAYE reference number which will assist with the mortgage issue) or as a self-employed person. Knowing how the contributions are being paid to HMRC will help you give the right information to the banks. 

If you look at it from a purely simplistic point of view, you are telling the banks you are an employee but don't have anything concrete to back that up (in their eyes). Your employer should have already set up a PAYE reference number as they are paying someone in the UK, the fact that they are a US company simply means that it is a slightly different type of scheme which is required to ensure they are not liable for employers NI contributions. I'd check with your accountant if this is perhaps what has been done, if not, it should be done as a matter of urgency to ensure your contributions are being allocated to the correct place and it doesn't come back to bite you on the bum further down the line. More info can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/register-employer/y/yes/yes

Thank you @kayleighali this is very worrying and I have contacted my accountant.

I will be very upset if we have lost the house, fees, time and I have been added to the Hunter database all because of their 'recommended' setup of my PAYE and NI.

I completely agree and would feel the same, fingers crossed it's just some miscommunication and everything is set up correctly in the background. Unfortunately, on many occasions, the accountant may be very well versed on individual tax matters but not quite up to speed on employer tax matters. This can lead to the information being sent to the wrong place and massive fines accrued - not that I am saying you will be fined, just an example how a small misunderstanding on legislation can snowball with no malice intended!

If your accountant is contracted by both you and your employer then they should be able to set the PAYE scheme up on their behalf, this task shouldn't fall to you

Many thanks for all yoru insight @kayleighali

My accountant is only contracted by me, my employer is not involved at all. Since I am not a US national it's kind of a 'here's your gross pay, you sort it out' type situation.

I came to my accountant before I took the job, explained the situation and they recommended my setup which apparently is 'not uncommon'. It was a simple process and I don't remember having to do much at all.

And should fines be accrued, who pays for them? Me because of my accountant's mistake?!