Lasting Power of Attorney - what actually happens when it is revoked? Is it confirmed by the OPG?

BooJewels

I find myself in a delicate situation and not sure how to proceed. 

I have been an Attorney for 3 elderly family members - one used very extensively for a couple of years and now their executor, one being used periodically as things occur and another where I've not yet done anything under these powers.  It is this latter one that is causing me some consternation.

My husband passed away recently and this troublesome LPA is for a family member on his side.  It is no longer felt appropriate (by either of us) that I should remain as an Attorney in isolation and at my suggestion they visited their solicitor and made the appropriate changes to their will (husband had been sole executor) and supposedly to cancel the LPA and set up a new one with more appropriate family members (ironically, the very ones they set up the original LPA to prevent getting access to their finances).

To try and cut a long story short - how do you know if you're no longer an Attorney?  Does the OPG write to you to confirm it?  They write when you've been appointed as one.

I had thought that the procedure would be that she'd revoke me as an Attorney, advise the OPG that my husband is deceased and set up a totally new LPA with new Attorneys.

The Donor concerned is somewhat confused about what an LPA even is, swears, when asked, that they've changed it, but their solicitor who was always very accommodating, but totally protective and discreet about her client, would talk to me about these matters third party, has left and been replaced by one who is less so.  When asked by email why she hadn't yet asked for my husband's death certificate (having offered it before the appointment), sent me a one line reply saying she'd only discuss it with her client.

So, having actually asked the two parties involved, I just don't know if I'm still an Attorney or not.  I worry that during any intervening time, either the Donor will be left with no Attorney, or worse, that if it hasn't been done how we agreed was best, nothing has even been done and I'll remain the only living Attorney and whilst I'd still be very happy to help her (I didn't suddenly become less trustworthy), I doubt the remaining family will feel the same.  She told me what she paid for the appointment with the solicitor "to sort out her will" and it didn't sound enough to cover everything, which along with not being asked for a DC, makes me suspicious that it's not been done at all.

The OPG, when I rang them, had a recording to say that LPAs were talking 20 weeks to set up at present and not to ring them about it until after that time frame had elapsed.  I also was on hold for over 40 minutes and only moved up two places from my initial queue position of 38, so I didn't wait to see if it would ever be answered.

anmarj

From what I could see before phone played up, yes you would be informed but it can only be done if they still have capacity to act (gov.uk site states this)

anmarj

https://blog.lawpack.co.uk/how-to-cancel-a-lasting-power-of-attorney/

gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/end

getmore4less

If you don't want to be an attorney any more  you can disclaim  yourself.


https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/stop-attorney

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/440363/LPA005_disclaimer_web_0715.pdf


You can check current status
https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian


Not sure they would need the DC if they are implimenting a new LPA.

NOTE  you may already not be able to act

• you’re a joint attorney and another attorney stops acting, unless the LPA says you can carry on making decisions

If you’re not the only attorney

Check the LPA. It will tell you whether you must make decisions:

• ‘jointly’ - this means all the attorneys must agree
• ‘jointly and severally’ - this means you can make decisions together or on your own

The LPA may tell you to make some decisions ‘jointly’ and others ‘jointly and severally’.

BooJewels

anmarj said:

https://blog.lawpack.co.uk/how-to-cancel-a-lasting-power-of-attorney/

gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/end

Thanks for those links - I'd obviously read the .Gov one and knew what the procedure was, I'd read that before advising the Donor what she'd need to do and what to ask of her solicitor.  However, I'd totally missed one word on that page - which makes quite a difference - it says "If your only attorney dies" - the word 'only' being the pertinent bit - and the requirement to see a DC - as @getm@getmore4less also suggested.  Maybe then they don't need the death certificate, as I still am an Attorney, so she's not left without - the LPA is, as such, still active.

The lawpack link does state that the Attorney must be informed if they're revoked - do you know if that is by the Solicitor, or by the OPG?  The Solicitor wouldn't answer when asked directly.

anmarj

my understanding is that the OPG would confirm once done as when disucssing a case I was involved in,  I was informed we would need to see the confirmation from OPG as they would need to update their register to show either a swap or LPA ending

elsien

There is a form you can use to check with the OPG if there is an LPA in place, and who the attorneys are - normally comes back in a few days. That would let you see if there have been recent changes or not. 

Free service, person won’t be informed and no need to give a reason if you don’t wish to.


https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian

BooJewels

getmore4less said:

If you don't want to be an attorney any more  you can disclaim  yourself.


https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/stop-attorney

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/440363/LPA005_disclaimer_web_0715.pdf


You can check current status
https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian


Not sure they would need the DC if they are implimenting a new LPA.

NOTE  you may already not be able to act

• you’re a joint attorney and another attorney stops acting, unless the LPA says you can carry on making decisions

If you’re not the only attorney

Check the LPA. It will tell you whether you must make decisions:

• ‘jointly’ - this means all the attorneys must agree
• ‘jointly and severally’ - this means you can make decisions together or on your own

The LPA may tell you to make some decisions ‘jointly’ and others ‘jointly and severally’.

Thanks.  I'm not sure if it was Jointly or Jointly and severally  - we advised doing the latter, but I've never seen the LPA document, so don't actually know.   So presumably if it was 'Jointly' it will automatically make the LPA unworkable anyway.

It may be too soon to check on an active LPA (i.e. if a new one is in place) - if they're taking 20 weeks, as it's only been about 12 since she went to the solicitor, but I'll bear that in mind in a few weeks, if I haven't heard anything.  Thank you.

Thanks also for the information on disclaiming myself - that might be an idea if in the fullness of time, if it doesn't appear to have been done.  But that brings its own problems too - I don't want it to end up where she has no Attorney, as in an emergency, better to have someone than no one.

It's causing me concern, as I made promises to my dying husband that I'm not going to be able to keep and whilst I want to do the very best for the person involved - as I don't feel as though the situation has changed - I wasn't ready for how quickly I ceased to be 'family' after my husband passed.

BooJewels

anmarj said:

my understanding is that the OPG would confirm once done as when disucssing a case I was involved in,  I was informed we would need to see the confirmation from OPG as they would need to update their register to show either a swap or LPA ending

Thanks - that was what I was hoping for - that I'd get confirmation in writing from the OPG if I was revoked.  It's perhaps too soon yet, if new LPAs are taking 20 weeks, it's only just over half of that.  I just hope nothing happens and it's needed in the intervening weeks.

BooJewels

elsien said:

There is a form you can use to check with the OPG if there is an LPA in place, and who the attorneys are - normally comes back in a few days. That would let you see if there have been recent changes or not. 

Free service, person won’t be informed and no need to give a reason if you don’t wish to.


https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian

Thanks - @getmore4less posted the same.  I think I might need to leave it a while yet, as I suspect that it's going to take longer than has elapsed for any changes to show yet.   But I'll definitely follow up on that at a more appropriate time.

I think I just need to be patient for a bit longer and see what develops.  I just have a feeling that it's not actually been done and would prefer not to find that out the hard way.  It's just unfortunate that this process takes so long, the situation could change faster than it could be rectified.

BooJewels

Just to add - I've checked the paperwork from the original LPAs being set up in 2018 and it doesn't mention whether they're 'Jointly' or 'Jointly and Severally' - so that's no help - other than a comment in the covering letter from the solicitor that the donor wanted us to be able to act free of any limitations, so hadn't added any to the form.

Secondly, if the new solicitor didn't actually need a death certificate, in order to make the requested changes, why not just say so when asked, rather than refuse to even answer.   That subtlety of difference, wouldn't break any confidentiality, but would at least have reassured me that it was in fact in progress.  Her predecessor would have answered in such a way that I'd have my answer without any indiscretion on her part.