3 PCNs from ParkingEye - need advice on what to do

[Deleted User]

Hi All,

I want to ask for an advice in my situation regarding PCNs from ParkingEye.

A new Lidl shop has recently opened in our town centre and I shopped there several times in October.

On 21th Oct I received by post 2 PCNs from ParkingEye: 7th Oct (2hrs 15mins) and 13th Oct (2hrs 16mins).

On 27th Oct I received the third PCN for 20th Oct (2hrs 15mins) (and a reminder of 2 previous PCNs).

These 3 cases are very similar as you can see because on those days I had almost the same route and agenda.

Basically I did some shopping in Lidl (have receipts), drove elsewhere (have some receipts from different shops/supermarkets) and then came back to buy something on my way back (have receipts as well).

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to do my own research and only started looking into it yesterday.

From what I have learnt so far ideally I need to complain to the landowner (Lidl, but not quite sure - how could I find that out btw?) AND submit an appeal to PE as soon as possible upon receipt of PCNs.

The trouble is I have 3 PCNs on hands so it's potentially £270 out of my pocket if my appeals fail.

Also, I don't want my cases to go to Small Court stage as for family reasons I won't be able to take part in hearings so the only hope was an appeal.

As the deadlines to pay half of the price (£45 instead of £90) for the first two PCNs were 29th and 30th Oct I decided to pay that reduced charge to minimise the damage and find out what else I can do about these 2 and the 3rd one (payment deadline 13 Nov, reduced price by 6th Nov, haven't paid yet).

My understanding is that I can still appeal even after I made a payment (I know it's not ideal as I already parted with part of my money and it might be tricky to get them back even if I win my appeal).

I've heard about Double Dipping - is that what I need to point on in my appeal?

I'm happy to complain to Lidl (after I'm sure it's their land) pointing out that I'm their loyal customer (used to shop at several different locations before they opened this one) and wonder if filling in their Contact Us online is the best option?

I read this post (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou) but still have questions so please bear with me. 

D_P_Dance

Have yo read any of these?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5550336/double-dip-parking-list-of-cases

Have yo read the newbies?  Have you complained to your MP?

Coupon-mad

Oh no you've PAID two of them? That is terrible news.  Your money is down the drain unless PE consider your evidence of receipts but they don't have to consider appeals if people pay.

That was a silly move and not necessary.  It didn't  protect you. You don't pay PCNs if you visited twice in 24 hours, it is an ANPR error.  These are not fines and there was nothing to be scared about.

Do they all have the exact same paragraph, word for word, on the back in the middle, about the POFA 2012?

Tell us the truth...this is important.  On all 3 occasions did the car leave Lidl in between, and then return later?

Or did you leave the car parked at Lidl and go and shop elsewhere on foot then walk back to the car and got something else in Lidl (hence the other receipts)?

D_P_Dance

I suppose that you can ask them for a refund, which they will refuse.  You can then issue a letter before action

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

If they ignore that you can take them to court.  IMO, it being ParkingEye, there is a possibilti they they may settle before a hearing.  If it goes to court you may, (or may not), get your money back.

However, you will need to do a lot of reading and possibly get your head around some legal concepts.  

[Deleted User]

D_P_Dance said:

Have yo read any of these?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5550336/double-dip-parking-list-of-cases

Have yo read the newbies?  Have you complained to your MP?

I read some other posts on double dip but not the one you're referring to. Thanks for the link.
Yes, I have read the newbies, the reason I'm asking is that I have already paid some of my PCNs as it might change the route I need to take.
I haven't complained to my MP yet as it needs to be a proper complaint and I prefer to gather as many arguments as possible before going ahead.

Coupon-mad said:

Oh no you've PAID two of them? That is terrible news.  Your money is down the drain unless PE consider your evidence of receipts but they don't have to consider appeals if people pay.

That was a silly move and not necessary.  It didn't  protect you. You don't pay PCNs if you visited twice in 24 hours, it is an ANPR error.  These are not fines and there was nothing to be scared about.

Do they all have the exact same paragraph, word for word, on the back in the middle, about the POFA 2012?

Tell us the truth...this is important.  On all 3 occasions did the car leave Lidl in between, and then return later?

Or did you leave the car parked at Lidl and go and shop elsewhere on foot then walk back to the car and got something else in Lidl (hence the other receipts)?

Yes, all PCNs have the exact same paragraph about the POFA 2021.
Yes, the car did leave Lidl in between on 2 out of three occasions.

D_P_Dance said:

I suppose that you can ask them for a refund, which they will refuse.  You can then issue a letter before action

If they ignore that you can take them to court.  IMO, it being ParkingEye, there is a possibilti they they may settle before a hearing.  If it goes to court you may, (or may not), get your money back.

However, you will need to do a lot of reading and possibly get your head around some legal concepts.  

That's sad.. Oh well, that's learning for the future. Thanks for the information.

Coupon-mad

Ok so appeal all three showing proof of being elsewhere in between then returning, and ask that PE's Data Protection Officer scrutinise the ANPR images fir the missing 'orphan images' and refund the two that were paid and cancel the third.  Tell them the approx time the car would have left and returned and demand they now carry out the manual checks they were required to do.

D_P_Dance

Recently an ANPR camera mistook a womans tee shirt for a number plate, it was on Sky News.

[Deleted User]

Coupon-mad said:

Ok so appeal all three showing proof of being elsewhere in between then returning, and ask that PE's Data Protection Officer scrutinise the ANPR images fir the missing 'orphan images' and refund the two that were paid and cancel the third.  Tell them the approx time the car would have left and returned and demand they now carry out the manual checks they were required to do.

Thanks for your advice. I'm currently going through my receipts to reconstruct what happened on each occasion and have some additional questions.

On one occasion I have receipts for the first and second visits at Lidl, as well as a receipt form another supermarket between these two so an appeal should be as you described, i.e I state that the car left the parking in between (showing proof) and ask that PE's Data Protection Officer scrutinise the ANPR images and give me a refund.

On other occasion as I recall it now I entered the parking but had to leave it without parking because I realised that I need to visit another shop first (have a receipt from there 5 mins after PCN's arrival time). Later on I came back to Lidl and have a receipt.
I assume that this appeal should be almost the same, just need to mention that the car didn't park and provide proof of being elsewhere soon after my first visit to the parking, is that ok?

On the last occasion I really struggle to find any receipts (need to check my bank statement though) and cannot recall all the details as it was almost a month ago so it's possible that the car didn't actually leave the parking in between despite my memory telling me otherwise.
Can I still appeal as in 2 previous cases and state that the car left the parking in between but without showing any proof or I need to use different approach?

I take it that it's still better to write "the car left the parking" i.e without mentioning driver?

Redx

Yes do the above

Check if the NTK PCN s all complied with POFA

If they did , appeal or complain as driver , if you were driving !

Pointless hiding behind POFA as keeper if parking Eye complied with POFA 2012 !

So if they complied with the law , do all the above mentioned impositions as driver

Coupon-mad

Have you not got dash cam footage or Google location on your phone?

You need to use my phrase 'orphan images' when emailing the DPO.  

[Deleted User]

Here is my appeal to PE, any suggestions welcome:

Re PCN number: xxx

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about about the matter to your client landowner.

I parked my vehicle at the Lidl's parking at 8:10am, did some shopping, paid for it at 8:36am (see receipt) and drove away by 9am.

Then I parked by Farmfoods, did some shopping and paid for it at 9:19am (see receipt).

On my way back I entered Lidl's parking for the second time at about 10:15am, did some shopping, paid for it at 10:23am (see receipt) and left the parking at 10:25am.

However, your PCN states that my car was at the car park from 8:10am to 10:25am.

Therefore I require that your Data Protection Officer scrutinise the ANPR images for the missing 'orphan images' and you refund me as the PCN was paid (see confirmation of payment).

In order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of receipts from Lidl and Farmfoods.

NAME

POSTAL ADDRESS

I was in that Lidl today and spoke to a deputy store manager (as the store manager wasn't there) about the issue.
He said I need to appeal to PE. When I pointed out that they should be able to cancel PCNs, he replied that they were able to do so on behalf of their customers but at some point PE introduced charge for such requests and therefore they don't do that anymore (sounds a bit funny as Lidl is the Landowner and I assume they draft contracts and agree/disagree upon any changes to them, not PE).
No matter if it's true or not, do you think it still makes sense to complain to Lidl via their online CS portal or it's enough to focus on appeals only?
I searched the forum and it looks like the majority of those who complained recently received multiple "sorry we cannot appeal or cancel on your behalf, please appeal directly" replies so that doesn't look very optimistic. 

p.s I haven't got dash cam or Google location on my phone.