IHT205 - valuing household/personal possessions - level of detail?

FloraandFauna

Good morning,

I could really do with some advice on how to fill out 11.2 on the IHT205 form.

My mother died recently and my father is the executor. My father is distraught at being asked to list her personal/share of household goods and put a value on them, understandably. He's currently insisting everything in the house is his, since he paid for it all (my mother hadn't worked since the 70's). I'm gradually talking him round as I cannot let him get into trouble with HMRC through misleading information. But am unsure of my ground in this question, so:

1. Is it relevant who paid for household goods, or are a married couple deemed to have equal (or perhaps not equal) ownership of all objects in the marital home?

2. How much detail do people actually put on the forms? Is it, for e.g., "1/2 share in bed, dining table & chairs, 3 sofas...", or is it more "Furniture: 1/2 share of sale value = £2,000"?

Actually, a 3rd question... one of the suggested categories is electronic equipment. My mother has a very old kindle, and a very old ibook of some sort. Resale value probably nil. Do people list things only above a certain value, either individually or grouped? e.g. if all her electronics added together might fetch £20 on ebay, would you put that? 

Apologies, you can probably tell I'm floundering here a bit. Grateful for examples of what people have done - NOT with £s attached! Just examples of categories and level of detail within them.

many thanks if you can help.

Flugelhorn

Can I just check if there is a need to get probate ? did she have things in her own name? 

re the value, most people (unless there are old masters etc hanging on the walls) put a relatively low amount as the resale value is pretty low and can in fact cost you to get rid of stuff - I put about £500 for a house contents (cost me £200 to get them taken away)

JGB1955

Unless she had some very expensive jewellery I would put something along the lines of 'personal and household possessions - £xxx'.  No need for any detail.

FloraandFauna

Thanks, both!

Yes, I think we do need probate, as she left specific bequests to my brother and I, and a charity, in her will, as well as having some ISAs and bank accounts in her own name. As I understand it, that means we need probate even though everything else goes to her husband? 

The notes in IHT206 do suggest certain categories so I wondered if people did split up the value according to what type of possession it was, but I think I'm stuck (my father is stuck) on the concept of ownership of household goods if she didn't provide the money used to pay for any of them. Or am I overthinking it?

Mojisola

Our solicitor put a value of £500 for Dad's possessions and the contents of a 4-bed house. There were no individual items listed. 

Flugelhorn

FloraandFauna said:

Thanks, both!

Yes, I think we do need probate, as she left specific bequests to my brother and I, and a charity, in her will, as well as having some ISAs and bank accounts in her own name. As I understand it, that means we need probate even though everything else goes to her husband? 

The notes in IHT206 do suggest certain categories so I wondered if people did split up the value according to what type of possession it was, but I think I'm stuck (my father is stuck) on the concept of ownership of household goods if she didn't provide the money used to pay for any of them. Or am I overthinking it?

Some banks etc will transfer (significant)  funds on the sight of the will and death cert without probate - I'm sure you have checked already! (if not check with the bereavement teams at the banks) 

Re the amounts - honestly don't overthink it - it is a few hundred at the most for all the personal things, you don't need to list them at all

theoretica

As above - if she had a collection of jewellery or antiques it might need listing.  If it is just general living stuff and nothing the family will sell then a nominal £500 is all that box needs.

RAS

FloraandFauna said:

Thanks, both!

Yes, I think we do need probate, as she left specific bequests to my brother and I, and a charity, in her will, as well as having some ISAs and bank accounts in her own name. As I understand it, that means we need probate even though everything else goes to her husband? 

The notes in IHT206 do suggest certain categories so I wondered if people did split up the value according to what type of possession it was, but I think I'm stuck (my father is stuck) on the concept of ownership of household goods if she didn't provide the money used to pay for any of them. Or am I overthinking it?

You are both over-thinking.

First check whether you actually need probate.

List those ISAs and bank accounts in her sole name, ring their bereavement teams and ask whether you need probate to release the sum in her account. Some release £30k on sight of the will and death certificate, others release a lot just on sight of the death certificate.

Set up a second account where you bank and get everything transferred into that account. Keep records, pay the funeral expenses.

Hopefully, there will be enough to pay out all the specific bequests.

eddyinfreehold

Sorry for your recent loss. I typed this (below) recently on another thread. If it puts you or your dad at ease, get a RICS Surveyor/Auctioneer in to value the chattels of her estate. You could advise on what you know to be her property and what was shared or your dad's if they operated that way. The fact you have a professional valuation gives extra credence to the sum you put down on the IHT form if it is questioned. Also, if she willed a % or fraction to a charity and not a fixed sum, the charity may require professional evidence of a correct valuation.

I wrote.....

"When my father died about 5 years ago we had a very nice local Estate Agent/Auctioneer registered with RICS who was supremely qualified to do this sort of work. We asked him to meet me at such and such a time at the property. He did, and spent 3 hours going from room to room with a pencil and a copybook. Then he had a look in the garage and walked the garden. We had a cup of tea and a chat for 15 mins and he left. I drove 200 miles home Three 3 days later we received a probate valuation of the property which was pretty much what we expected. Also a description of each room, size and contents, then a full list of all the items he thought significant and their values. At the end were some photographs of the property inside and out. Eight pages of closely typed detail which we transferred onto the particular IHT forms as required. He also sent a bill for £250 plus VAT.

During the whole business of getting Probate, that was probably the most satisfying £300 we spent. I sent the cheque by return."

I hope this helps

Keep_pedalling

Generally for household chattels you just state a nominal value, but most of these will be joint assets which don’t need to be declared. 

FloraandFauna

Thank you, all - really appreciate it.

Moji that's interesting - it's also a 4 bed house, so reassuring a solicitor thought so low a sum was reasonable for all the associated furniture. As theoretica has also suggested the same sum, I'm relieved it doesn't all have to be accounted for (someone was telling me they'd totted up the value of crockery, pots etc!).

Flugelhorn and RAS making the same point!  Thanks - we'll try calling round if it could save probate. I think the most in a single account is about £50k in PBs. I had thought probate was needed if anything was left to anyone other than the surviving spouse though - have I got that wrong?

Thanks for the suggestion of outside help eddy but there's no way he'll have a stranger in the house counting the value of her life (as he feels it). A bit concerned you put 8 pages of detail in with the form though (I appreciate "as required" may be a small proportion of that).

keep_pedalling I thought her 'share' of joint assets needed to be declared, even if they are discounted from the final sum relevant for IHT purposes? Hence putting down the joint property and bank accounts?