What should the unit prices be to cover wholesale prices?

wittynamegoeshere

I'm sure you're right.  It was just an off-the-top-of-the-head example.

Perhaps a better statement could be that anyone who's already about to buy an applicance anyway might well save by spending more, e.g. on a heat pump instead of condenser one.

MWT

wittynamegoeshere said:

I'm sure you're right.  It was just an off-the-top-of-the-head example.

Perhaps a better statement could be that anyone who's already about to buy an applicance anyway might well save by spending more, e.g. on a heat pump instead of condenser one.

Agreed, worth checking but the differential on some of the heat-pump dryers is hard to justify, fortunately the prices are coming down now and it is no longer true that they are all over £500...

[Deleted User]

I though you buy a heat pump today, its a condenser as well? At least mine was some years ago. Which tested it and reckoned £35 a year for an average family (rated A++). The extra cost for it over a standard vented meant it needed to run for 5 years and we are past 6. Also meant we could replace the door vent (changed the non glazed panel) from the standard dryer and stop some draughts.

chris1973

Sea_Shell said:

"Perhaps this may be the shock that some needed to start taking their wasteful consumption more seriously. E.g. some are still using filament light bulbs, which is just outright ignorant these days."

I'd suggest that "wasteful consumption" should be taken in the round and not focused on one element of usage.

I don't think calling those who still have filament bulbs as "ignorant" helps.

It's more nuanced than that.   How many bulbs?  Time in use?

Starting with local Councils and the Government themselves. Our Town Hall is still lit up with huge chandaliers, each fitment having about 20 arms each with 40 or 60 watt clear filament candle lamps - about 6kw of lighting in the main hall.

Then we look at why are statues lit up in the local parks?, Why are the outside of Government buildings, Town Halls, Parliament, Churches, etc all lit up from dawn to dusk! - is this for the benefit of spiders to see their way?, as I can't see any benefit to wasting 1000 of kw/h's every year running massive banks of floodlights whilst the buildings are empty and high streets deserted, in fact I can't see any benefit to lighting up exterior brickwork at all - apart from as a vanity project. But we are talking about thousands of buildings like this all over the UK but where are protests?, why aren't insulate Britain sat in their doorways?. Where is the drama!.

Unfortunately its clear from this massive wastage that the so called exemplars aren't even following their own advice, but of course its always the peasants who have to fall on their swords and make the sacrifices. Besides, 'green projects' are only in vogue when its profitable or an emotive way of introducing new taxes!. Never when it means themselves making cut backs!.

So, before calling people ignorant, maybe you need to start with the glaring examples that i've pointed out to you here and tackle it at the top.

Let us know how you get on............

tghe-retford

wittynamegoeshere said:

I can change my home light bulbs.  I can't change what the council do.

Are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right?

Also I know that around here there were experiments with switching street lights off in the early morning hours, saving massive amounts of power.  Cue the predictable comments from the safety-obsessed, feminists etc etc.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/lincoln-news/thousands-sign-petition-calls-council-5194998

I've suggested a means of reducing personal expenditure which is completely painless and beneficial.  I can't speak for you, but personally I rather like paying less for my bills.  Also, if everyone did it, it would make public wastefulness look even more ridiculous in comparison.  It's not a fix for every fault in the world but it's a step in the right direction.  What's your answer, keep paying overly high bils, complain forever and achieve nothing?

I think the argument is one of double standards and lack of understanding (whether purposeful or not) of people they perceive to be beneath them. The people who tell you to purchase LED lights, stop flying on airplanes, buy electric cards and pay for a heat pump I find are the same ones who have incandescent bulbs in chandeliers, fly by private jet, drive diesel cars - potentially many of them in motorcades and can easily afford a heat pump or indeed, land for wind turbines, solar panels, a new electric car and massive increases in electric bills.

What tends to happen if you do agree to do all this is that those who lecture perform theatre in the public eye to look good whilst continue to do as they please when your attention is turned away.

QrizB

QrizB said:

Spies said:

Theorising that the cap is going to go up in April, how much should we be paying per unit of gas and electricity in order for the suppliers to not go broke?

According to Ofgem's press release on the current cap, it was based on a wholesale gas price of about 64p per therm (a therm is about 29kWh, so 2.2p per kWh) and a wholesale electricity price of around £70 per MWh (7p per kWh), based on prices from Febuary to July 2021.

The new cap will be based on prices from August 2021 to January 2022; roughly half that period is now behind us, and so we've a pretty good idea which way things will change. The only thing that needs guessing is exactly how much prices will rise by.

I thought I'd revisit this post and use info from Drax and Guy Lipman.

• Electricity: Drax has the real-time price averaging 10.8p/kWh in August, 17.7p/kWh in September and 15.9p/kWh in October.
• Electricity: Drax has the day-ahead price averaging 10.6p/kWh in August, 17.7p/kWh in September and 16.4p/kWh in October.
• Electricity: Guy has prices averaging 10.7p/kWh in August, 18.9p/kWh in September and 18.0p/kWh in October.
• Gas: Guy has prices averaging 3.71p/kWh in August, 5.19p/kWh in September and 6.85p/kWh in October.

Obviously we're not yet half-way through November but, for completeness, this month electricity is averaging 17.5p/16.4p/15.8p and gas is averaging 5.85p, respectively.

Here's some speculation for you (I'm fully expecting to be proved wrong as the situation develops).

• Best case: Decenber and January are as cheap as August was. The average wholesale price for electricity will be around 14p, up 7p, and gas will be around 4.8p, up 2.6p. Ofgem capped rates will be around 28p and 6.7p respectively.
• Middle case: Decenber and January will be like the cheaper of Sept or Oct. The average wholesale price for electricity will be around 15.5p, up 8.5p, and gas will be around 5.3p, up 3.1p. Ofgem capped rates will be around 29.5p and 7.2p respectively.
• Worst case: December and January will be like the more expensive of Sept or Oct. The average wholesale price for electricity will be around 16p, up 9p, and gas will be around 5.8p, up 3.6p. Ofgem capped rates will be around 30p and 7.7p respectively.

Compared to my original wet-finger numbers of 36p and 8.5p, even the worst case is better now I've done the maths.

But they're still pretty high numbers, especially for gas (in relative terms, the worst-case electricity price is up 42% but gas is up 88%; even the best case is 33% and 63%).

Spies

I love the analytic minds on here, saves me having to work it all out 

Shedman

Might be lower than your previous estimates but still very scary numbers...

Verdigris

Going off the gas grid and getting an ASHP seems like an increasing attractive prospect.

jimjames

wittynamegoeshere said:

But many just want "proper" bulbs, like they had in the old days, and won't consider anything else.  There's a booming black market on ebay for them.  One example among many...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174748254498

2,391 10-packs sold!  I saw one listing saying "Remember when you could see".

I worked out that the LED bulbs were paid for in a few months in the most used rooms in the house. I'm really curious how that listing can claim an 80% energy saving. Is that against a 300W bulb? Or are they really LEDs in disguise?