What should the unit prices be to cover wholesale prices?

victor2

Ultrasonic said:

victor2 said:

Even bigger companies could go bust - unless Ofgem make an early adjustment to the cap and make Joe Public pay up...

Which if the alternative is the big suppliers going bust, they should.

Which will still hit the consumers hard. The government bailed out Bulb (with our money ultimately), what do you think they'll do if the likes of Eon cease trading?

Bring back the electricity board and gas board - life was simpler in those days!

Ultrasonic

victor2 said:

Ultrasonic said:

victor2 said:

Even bigger companies could go bust - unless Ofgem make an early adjustment to the cap and make Joe Public pay up...

Which if the alternative is the big suppliers going bust, they should.

Which will still hit the consumers hard. The government bailed out Bulb (with our money ultimately), what do you think they'll do if the likes of Eon cease trading?

Bring back the electricity board and gas board - life was simpler in those days!

My point was we can't allow the likes of EOn and the other big 6 to go bust, and if prices need to rise to prevent this then so be it. Ultimately we need to pay what it costs (whilst reducing usage to reduce total bills where possible). We're not talking about a luxury good where we can just decide it's fine if all suppliers go out of business. 

victor2

Ultrasonic said:

victor2 said:

Ultrasonic said:

victor2 said:

Even bigger companies could go bust - unless Ofgem make an early adjustment to the cap and make Joe Public pay up...

Which if the alternative is the big suppliers going bust, they should.

Which will still hit the consumers hard. The government bailed out Bulb (with our money ultimately), what do you think they'll do if the likes of Eon cease trading?

Bring back the electricity board and gas board - life was simpler in those days!

My point was we can't allow the likes of EOn and the other big 6 to go bust, and if prices need to rise to prevent this then so be it. Ultimately we need to pay what it costs (whilst reducing usage to reduce total bills where possible). We're not talking about a luxury good where we can just decide it's fine if all suppliers go out of business. 

Apologies - misunderstood your previous post.

Sea_Shell

Ultrasonic said:

victor2 said:

Ultrasonic said:

victor2 said:

Even bigger companies could go bust - unless Ofgem make an early adjustment to the cap and make Joe Public pay up...

Which if the alternative is the big suppliers going bust, they should.

Which will still hit the consumers hard. The government bailed out Bulb (with our money ultimately), what do you think they'll do if the likes of Eon cease trading?

Bring back the electricity board and gas board - life was simpler in those days!

My point was we can't allow the likes of EOn and the other big 6 to go bust, and if prices need to rise to prevent this then so be it. Ultimately we need to pay what it costs (whilst reducing usage to reduce total bills where possible). We're not talking about a luxury good where we can just decide it's fine if all suppliers go out of business. 

Until you price people out of affording their product, and they begin to rack up debt or default their DDs.

People who are already struggling, and already in debt, just won't be able to pay.

At what point do they get cut off, and does that take time to implement (notice etc) legally?

QrizB

Energy demand has low price elasticity, but it has some. If prices rise enough, we'll all use less and demand will fall.

Energy supply isn't very elastic either, but that's mostly because it takes years to bring a new power station / wind turbine / solar farm / nuclear reactor on-line. If we get a couple of *years* (as opposed to days) of >20p/kWh wholesale electricity, supply will increase.

(Note the UK Govt's energy strategy is based on wholesale electicity at 6.5p/kWh. Ripple is expected to be profitable at that price.)

facade

I thought Boris said he would protect our consumers from the effects of The Sanctions. I assume he intends to nationalise the North Sea gas fields without compensation, and then supply the gas exclusively to us at cost.

Ultrasonic

Sea_Shell said:

Until you price people out of affording their product, and they begin to rack up debt or default their DDs.

People who are already struggling, and already in debt, just won't be able to pay.

At what point do they get cut off, and does that take time to implement (notice etc) legally?

There is a level at which the poorest will need more help but we may get to a point where far more need to make choices that they don't want to, in order to reduce energy use and/or reduce other expenditure to be able to pay for energy. I know nobody likes to consider a standard of living falling but it may be necessary.

Watching the horrifying news form Ukraine I can't help but feel lucky to be worrying about the cost of energy rather than my home being bombed. I do appreciate though that I'm in the fortunate position where the current energy price increases are not going to cause me real financial difficulty. In part this is down to my consciously frugal energy use but certainly not exclusively.

Verdigris

In Japan, consumers managed to reduce their consumption by 20%, to compensate for the loss of the Fukushima nuclear plant. It seems Brits would rather moan about the price going up than to tighten their belts and turn the thermostat down (other energy conservation methods are available).

Sea_Shell

Ultrasonic said:

Sea_Shell said:

Until you price people out of affording their product, and they begin to rack up debt or default their DDs.

People who are already struggling, and already in debt, just won't be able to pay.

At what point do they get cut off, and does that take time to implement (notice etc) legally?

There is a level at which the poorest will need more help but we may get to a point where far more need to make choices that they don't want to, in order to reduce energy use and/or reduce other expenditure to be able to pay for energy. I know nobody likes to consider a standard of living falling but it may be necessary.

Watching the horrifying news form Ukraine I can't help but feel lucky to be worrying about the cost of energy rather than my home being bombed. I do appreciate though that I'm in the fortunate position where the current energy price increases are not going to cause me real financial difficulty. In part this is down to my consciously frugal energy use but certainly not exclusively.

I agree.   People are going to have to make uncomfortable choices, that they've never had to make before.

But at least we are free to make those choices.

tghe-retford

By the looks of the news that has been coming out of the Middle East, anyone thinking of increased production of oil and LNG is going to be disappointed as it appears they are rallying behind Russia and the sanctions imposed by the west. This will only get worse and in terms of uncomfortable choices, we really could see a prospect of households handing the keys back to the landlord or the bank and making themselves homeless because it just won't be affordable to live independently any more. This year, at least, is going to be grim in terms of cost of living.

Looks like the oil crises of the 1970s are going to make a comeback to which you can add gas to that mix as well.