bannister on stud wall

Bendy_House

tacpot12 said:

While using adhesive as well as metal fixings can make the connection to the wall more secure, I would advise not to use adhesive as it will make a dreadful mess of the wall when it is removed. Stairlifts tend to be temporary installations, and so might the bannister be. If you use enough metal fixings you can make it just as secure, and the holes for the fixing can be easily filled and decorated over.    

Absolutely.

If there are studs in that wall, and the OP can get into, ooh, at least two or three of them, then they should be fine.

There are some situations, however, where attaching heavy objects to walls - especially items which will be subject to impact/dynamic forces (kitchen wall units, radiators, bannisters, etc) - where adhering them will not only improve the overall strength, but - more importantly - prevent the beginning of any movement in use. Once these fixings start to move, they start to fail.

Screwing into studs is ideal - I hope the OP can find them. But when folk need to rely even partly on 'drywall' fixings for security, then I'd say adhesive is a 'must'.

Rad brackets - once checked for position and just before final tightening, get a smear of Stixall or similar between it and the wall.

Gavin83

So we moved into a rental property where a lot
of corners had been cut. One of these was a hand rail that had been attached to the plasterboard via fairly cheap plugs. We had need to temporarily remove the handrail and the thing fell apart, there was no way we could put it up the same way.

To solve this problem we used plasterboard anchors, like these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/405504-Plasterboard-Anchors-Pliers-Fixing/dp/B07J476MTV

Now were it my house I’d have used the method mentioned by others. However saying that the fixings provided by these were very strong, to the point it would have taken my entire weight. If for whatever reason you can’t put up any further wood this is IMO a good solution.

canaldumidi

Doozergirl said:

Bendy_House said:

Yeah, but your kids are brighter than me. :-(

Sorry, I was thinking more of the person that is pretending to be and managed to convince the OP that they are a professional!  

My thinking too!  As I say, I wasn't there at the time. My father also knows a good joiner who he's used before, so depending what I find I might suggest using him.

The last thing I want is my 100-year-old dad putting his (admittedly limited) weight on the banister, pulling it off the wall and falling down....

Off to take a look now.

Section62

stuart45 said:

You can usually tell by tapping the wall. Studs are usually around 600mm centres. 

This, or a stud finder, or failing that a metal detector should pick up fixing nails/screws giving a very good clue were the studs are going to be.

Something that any professional handyperson should have in their toolkit, and use (with cable detection as well) before drilling holes in people's walls.

Bendy_House

Gavin83 said:

So we moved into a rental property where a lot
of corners had been cut. One of these was a hand rail that had been attached to the plasterboard via fairly cheap plugs. We had need to temporarily remove the handrail and the thing fell apart, there was no way we could put it up the same way.

To solve this problem we used plasterboard anchors, like these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/405504-Plasterboard-Anchors-Pliers-Fixing/dp/B07J476MTV

Now were it my house I’d have used the method mentioned by others. However saying that the fixings provided by these were very strong, to the point it would have taken my entire weight. If for whatever reason you can’t put up any further wood this is IMO a good solution.

These expanding wall fixings are my preferred ones for drywall too. If the holes for them are drilled snugly and carefully, so as not to crumble the plater edges or 'burst' the p'board paper layer out at the back, then they are very strong.

BUT, they are the classic type that are very vulnerable to being weakened as soon as there's any movement. Once they move even a mm, the hole in the p'board will begin to be compromised; the plaster edges will start to wear and crumble, and the paper layers will begin to tear. It's only going to go one way after that.

Hence the adhesive. It isn't to 'stick' the item to the wall - the proper fixings themselves do that - it's to try and prevent this sideways loosening movement from ever beginning.

If you are the only person using your stairs, you'll know to not grab and haul or even swing yourself up using the bannister! But in a family home, especially with kids, this is exactly what'll happen. I can almost guarantee it won't last.

Section62

Bendy_House said:

If you are the only person using your stairs, you'll know to not grab and haul or even swing yourself up using the bannister! But in a family home, especially with kids, this is exactly what'll happen. I can almost guarantee it won't last.

Fundamentally the problem is fixing anything to plasterboard which people might lean on or grab or pull.

Plasterboard isn't designed to deal with that kind of loading - it doesn't have resistance to pull-out forces.  With enough load toggle-type fixings can be pulled through the plasterboard.  Anything glued to the surface will either pull the plaster skim off the board, or pull the paper off the plaster core.

And ultimately the strength of the board is only as good as its fixings to the underlying structure - the board fixing nails/screws can be pulled through easily - as anyone who has needed to remove old plasterboard will know.

Regardless of whether it is used by one person who knows how it is fixed, or a houseful of athletic children, something like a bannister needs to be fixed securely into 'structural' material.

The dynamic loading from someone falling and grabbing the rail to catch themselves can be many times more than their bodyweight.  The bannister/handrail needs to be secured in a way it will hold the person, and not result in the bannister (and/or chunks of plasterboard) falling down on top of them to add to the potential injury risk.

That means using suitable screws into bricks/blocks/studs.

Stairparts need to be treated as 'structural', rather than purely cosmetic.

Rosa_Damascena

Doozergirl said:

I have never bought a handrail
with the brackets attached for thebprecise reason that you don't know the wall make up or where the handrail sits in relation to even correctly assumed centres.  

Even if they were already affixed.   Unscrew them and put the where the studs are.  My kids would know this.  

Well, I learned something!!

Sandtree

tacpot12 said:

Bendy_House said:

... - first attach a nice flat timber batten to the wall, fixing it to the studs, and ideally also adhering it to the wall along its length (you really don't want any movement in this at all), and then fix the bannister to this batten....

While using adhesive as well as metal fixings can make the connection to the wall more secure, I would advise not to use adhesive as it will make a dreadful mess of the wall when it is removed. Stairlifts tend to be temporary installations, and so might the bannister be. If you use enough metal fixings you can make it just as secure, and the holes for the fixing can be easily filled and decorated over.    

You think someone would want stairs with no rail at all? Thought building regs required one on one side at a minimum?

I can think of a couple of situations where it may be preferable to have it on one side or the other but for 99% I'd have thought its simply a tick that it has a handrail rather than thinking "wouldnt the stairs look so much better if the handrail was on the other side"