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Retailer refusing to refund lost order even though I didn’t specify a safe place & no signature

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  • DB1904
    DB1904 Posts: 1,240 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    DB1904 said:
    You'll have to remind them the contract is taken to include a clause that they as the trader will deliver the goods to you the consumer, that you aren't responsible for the actions of their agent whilst this is under taken and that the passing of risk only occurs once the goods come in to your physical possession:

    www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/29/enacted

    Passing of risk
    (1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.
    (2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—
    (a)the consumer, or
    (b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.
    (3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who—
    (a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and
    (b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer.
    (4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.
    I sent the above to Zara but have just received this:

    Hello Jenna, thank you for your patience. We are sorry to inform you that our relevant department has thoroughly assessed your concern and we are unable to accommodate your request for a replacement or refund for your order. Please be advised that we are unable to find any errors in the delivery process as we have confirmed the order was successfully delivered to the address provided. We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.

    Y It was delivered to me when I wasn’t in, and therefore would have been left when I gave no instructions or permission to do so. I am out of nearly £200 and struggling as to what to do next. Any help would be much appreciated. 

    :(
    Quite simple really, the tracking show it was delivered. 
    Have you even read the original post? 

    As explained several times, the tracking says it was delivered but without any photo of it on my doorstep and without a signature. I wasn’t in at the time so if it really was delivered, it would have been left on my doorstep without my permission or instruction. 

    As someone has explained, far more helpfully then you, it is the retailers responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to me. Not my doorstep. Unless I’ve specified so. Which i didn’t 
    I have yes. It's quite simple why they're safe behaving like this they either don't  believe you or won't accept you just saying you haven't received it. 
  • DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    You'll have to remind them the contract is taken to include a clause that they as the trader will deliver the goods to you the consumer, that you aren't responsible for the actions of their agent whilst this is under taken and that the passing of risk only occurs once the goods come in to your physical possession:

    www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/29/enacted

    Passing of risk
    (1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.
    (2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—
    (a)the consumer, or
    (b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.
    (3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who—
    (a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and
    (b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer.
    (4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.
    I sent the above to Zara but have just received this:

    Hello Jenna, thank you for your patience. We are sorry to inform you that our relevant department has thoroughly assessed your concern and we are unable to accommodate your request for a replacement or refund for your order. Please be advised that we are unable to find any errors in the delivery process as we have confirmed the order was successfully delivered to the address provided. We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.

    Y It was delivered to me when I wasn’t in, and therefore would have been left when I gave no instructions or permission to do so. I am out of nearly £200 and struggling as to what to do next. Any help would be much appreciated. 

    :(
    Quite simple really, the tracking show it was delivered. 
    Have you even read the original post? 

    As explained several times, the tracking says it was delivered but without any photo of it on my doorstep and without a signature. I wasn’t in at the time so if it really was delivered, it would have been left on my doorstep without my permission or instruction. 

    As someone has explained, far more helpfully then you, it is the retailers responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to me. Not my doorstep. Unless I’ve specified so. Which i didn’t 
    I have yes. It's quite simple why they're safe behaving like this they either don't  believe you or won't accept you just saying you haven't received it. 
    Good thing theres a consumer rights act in my favour! Honestly, read through some of the clauses people have shared on this. You really are making yourself out to be a muppet! 
    You said you were at a loss as to why. They don't believe you so why's so difficult to comprehend?
    Because it’s irrelevant if they believe me. They are in breach of their contract. 
  • DB1904
    DB1904 Posts: 1,240 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    You'll have to remind them the contract is taken to include a clause that they as the trader will deliver the goods to you the consumer, that you aren't responsible for the actions of their agent whilst this is under taken and that the passing of risk only occurs once the goods come in to your physical possession:

    www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/29/enacted

    Passing of risk
    (1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.
    (2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—
    (a)the consumer, or
    (b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.
    (3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who—
    (a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and
    (b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer.
    (4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.
    I sent the above to Zara but have just received this:

    Hello Jenna, thank you for your patience. We are sorry to inform you that our relevant department has thoroughly assessed your concern and we are unable to accommodate your request for a replacement or refund for your order. Please be advised that we are unable to find any errors in the delivery process as we have confirmed the order was successfully delivered to the address provided. We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.

    Y It was delivered to me when I wasn’t in, and therefore would have been left when I gave no instructions or permission to do so. I am out of nearly £200 and struggling as to what to do next. Any help would be much appreciated. 

    :(
    Quite simple really, the tracking show it was delivered. 
    Have you even read the original post? 

    As explained several times, the tracking says it was delivered but without any photo of it on my doorstep and without a signature. I wasn’t in at the time so if it really was delivered, it would have been left on my doorstep without my permission or instruction. 

    As someone has explained, far more helpfully then you, it is the retailers responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to me. Not my doorstep. Unless I’ve specified so. Which i didn’t 
    I have yes. It's quite simple why they're safe behaving like this they either don't  believe you or won't accept you just saying you haven't received it. 
    Good thing theres a consumer rights act in my favour! Honestly, read through some of the clauses people have shared on this. You really are making yourself out to be a muppet! 
    You said you were at a loss as to why. They don't believe you so why's so difficult to comprehend?
    Because it’s irrelevant if they believe me. They are in breach of their contract. 
    I know but you did ask.  
  • DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    You'll have to remind them the contract is taken to include a clause that they as the trader will deliver the goods to you the consumer, that you aren't responsible for the actions of their agent whilst this is under taken and that the passing of risk only occurs once the goods come in to your physical possession:

    www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/29/enacted

    Passing of risk
    (1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.
    (2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—
    (a)the consumer, or
    (b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.
    (3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who—
    (a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and
    (b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer.
    (4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.
    I sent the above to Zara but have just received this:

    Hello Jenna, thank you for your patience. We are sorry to inform you that our relevant department has thoroughly assessed your concern and we are unable to accommodate your request for a replacement or refund for your order. Please be advised that we are unable to find any errors in the delivery process as we have confirmed the order was successfully delivered to the address provided. We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.

    Y It was delivered to me when I wasn’t in, and therefore would have been left when I gave no instructions or permission to do so. I am out of nearly £200 and struggling as to what to do next. Any help would be much appreciated. 

    :(
    Quite simple really, the tracking show it was delivered. 
    Have you even read the original post? 

    As explained several times, the tracking says it was delivered but without any photo of it on my doorstep and without a signature. I wasn’t in at the time so if it really was delivered, it would have been left on my doorstep without my permission or instruction. 

    As someone has explained, far more helpfully then you, it is the retailers responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to me. Not my doorstep. Unless I’ve specified so. Which i didn’t 
    I have yes. It's quite simple why they're safe behaving like this they either don't  believe you or won't accept you just saying you haven't received it. 
    Good thing theres a consumer rights act in my favour! Honestly, read through some of the clauses people have shared on this. You really are making yourself out to be a muppet! 
    You said you were at a loss as to why. They don't believe you so why's so difficult to comprehend?
    Because it’s irrelevant if they believe me. They are in breach of their contract. 
    I know but you did ask.  
    Yes to people who know what they’re talking about. Not you who clearly doesn’t understand the consumer rights act and just thought you’d chime in with nothing helpful. 
  • DB1904
    DB1904 Posts: 1,240 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    DB1904 said:
    You'll have to remind them the contract is taken to include a clause that they as the trader will deliver the goods to you the consumer, that you aren't responsible for the actions of their agent whilst this is under taken and that the passing of risk only occurs once the goods come in to your physical possession:

    www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/29/enacted

    Passing of risk
    (1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.
    (2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—
    (a)the consumer, or
    (b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.
    (3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who—
    (a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and
    (b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer.
    (4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.
    I sent the above to Zara but have just received this:

    Hello Jenna, thank you for your patience. We are sorry to inform you that our relevant department has thoroughly assessed your concern and we are unable to accommodate your request for a replacement or refund for your order. Please be advised that we are unable to find any errors in the delivery process as we have confirmed the order was successfully delivered to the address provided. We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.

    Y It was delivered to me when I wasn’t in, and therefore would have been left when I gave no instructions or permission to do so. I am out of nearly £200 and struggling as to what to do next. Any help would be much appreciated. 

    :(
    Quite simple really, the tracking show it was delivered. 
    Have you even read the original post? 

    As explained several times, the tracking says it was delivered but without any photo of it on my doorstep and without a signature. I wasn’t in at the time so if it really was delivered, it would have been left on my doorstep without my permission or instruction. 

    As someone has explained, far more helpfully then you, it is the retailers responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to me. Not my doorstep. Unless I’ve specified so. Which i didn’t 
    I have yes. It's quite simple why they're safe behaving like this they either don't  believe you or won't accept you just saying you haven't received it. 
    Good thing theres a consumer rights act in my favour! Honestly, read through some of the clauses people have shared on this. You really are making yourself out to be a muppet! 
    You said you were at a loss as to why. They don't believe you so why's so difficult to comprehend?
    Because it’s irrelevant if they believe me. They are in breach of their contract. 
    I know but you did ask.  
    Yes to people who know what they’re talking about. Not you who clearly doesn’t understand the consumer rights act and just thought you’d chime in with nothing helpful. 
    I have a better understanding than you do or you wouldn't have started the thread. 
  • Alderbank
    Alderbank Posts: 3,884 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Because it’s irrelevant if they believe me. They are in breach of their contract. 
    Well, they are in breach if they didn't deliver it. But they believe that they have done so.

    I suspect that when you first complained they challenged their courier who produced a time-stamped image of an open door and an occupant holding the package. They assumed that was your house which in many cases would be a reasonable assumption.

    Ask Zara for evidence of delivery. If they have a photo they might show it to you. If they are still unco-operative then it's LBA and small claims. The judge decides on balance of probabilities and if Zara have no evidence I believe he will decide in your favour.

    PS - couriers are pushed for time and can be very creative. Did you leave a window slightly open, even upstairs?
  • born_again
    born_again Posts: 20,315 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fifth Anniversary Name Dropper

    As explained several times, the tracking says it was delivered but without any photo of it on my doorstep and without a signature. I wasn’t in at the time so if it really was delivered, it would have been left on my doorstep without my permission or instruction. 

    As someone has explained, far more helpfully then you, it is the retailers responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to me. Not my doorstep. Unless I’ve specified so. Which i didn’t 
    Signatures have not been taken since the pandemic started. Photo's are up to the courier.

    Well as you provided them with NO instructions. They will go by their standard process.

    TBH. If I lived on a main road. I would be making sure that they were instructed to make sure nothing was left on the doorstep. 

    Delivery drivers do not get paid enough to think where they are leaving parcels.
    Life in the slow lane
  • Alderbank said:
    Because it’s irrelevant if they believe me. They are in breach of their contract. 
    Well, they are in breach if they didn't deliver it. But they believe that they have done so.

    I suspect that when you first complained they challenged their courier who produced a time-stamped image of an open door and an occupant holding the package. They assumed that was your house which in many cases would be a reasonable assumption.

    Ask Zara for evidence of delivery. If they have a photo they might show it to you. If they are still unco-operative then it's LBA and small claims. The judge decides on balance of probabilities and if Zara have no evidence I believe he will decide in your favour.

    PS - couriers are pushed for time and can be very creative. Did you leave a window slightly open, even upstairs?
    I have no idea what their ‘evidence’ is as despite asking them they haven’t sent through anything other then ‘it’s been delivered’

    I have checked the tracking number on Royal Mail and there is no photo or signature there, only saying it’s been delivered.

    Even if they provide a photo of it on my doorstep, I never at any point gave them permission to leave it there, nor instructed  them to a safe place. I live on a main road where cars pull up just outside, so if it’s been left there (which I’m assuming it has) it could well have been taken quite easily! 

    It is incredibly frustrating that they are just washing their hands of it, despite not having evidence. I am also considering reversing the payment through my bank.

  • born_again
    born_again Posts: 20,315 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fifth Anniversary Name Dropper

    It is incredibly frustrating that they are just washing their hands of it, despite not having evidence. I am also considering reversing the payment through my bank.

    If you are thinking of a chargeback, (odds on) it will be rejected on the basis it was delivered.
    All Zara need to to is provide proof of delivery, which they have from the tracking (which you have checked) and it will be rejected.
    Life in the slow lane
  • DB1904
    DB1904 Posts: 1,240 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Alderbank said:
    Because it’s irrelevant if they believe me. They are in breach of their contract. 
    Well, they are in breach if they didn't deliver it. But they believe that they have done so.

    I suspect that when you first complained they challenged their courier who produced a time-stamped image of an open door and an occupant holding the package. They assumed that was your house which in many cases would be a reasonable assumption.

    Ask Zara for evidence of delivery. If they have a photo they might show it to you. If they are still unco-operative then it's LBA and small claims. The judge decides on balance of probabilities and if Zara have no evidence I believe he will decide in your favour.

    PS - couriers are pushed for time and can be very creative. Did you leave a window slightly open, even upstairs?
    I have no idea what their ‘evidence’ is as despite asking them they haven’t sent through anything other then ‘it’s been delivered’

    I have checked the tracking number on Royal Mail and there is no photo or signature there, only saying it’s been delivered.

    Even if they provide a photo of it on my doorstep, I never at any point gave them permission to leave it there, nor instructed  them to a safe place. I live on a main road where cars pull up just outside, so if it’s been left there (which I’m assuming it has) it could well have been taken quite easily! 

    It is incredibly frustrating that they are just washing their hands of it, despite not having evidence. I am also considering reversing the payment through my bank.

    They have evidence it's been delivered. Other than you saying it hasn't what evidence do you have?
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