Samsung Fridge-Freezer from Boots Kitchen Appliances

winsoc

I would welcome opinions on whether I am being fobbed off and what I can do about it.

I have a Samsung American-style fridge freezer with ice-maker and water dispenser, purchased from Boots Kitchen Appliances 5 years ago for £969. Recently the ice dispenser stopped working, and it makes a clanking noise every 2 seconds or so. On inspecting it appeared the noise was created by a flap covering the ice-chute which was continually opening and closing.

A service engineer has inspected the appliance (at cost to me of approx £73) and concluded that the fault is caused by a wire that is broken, between the control panel (in the freezer door) with the main electronics of the appliance (in the body of the appliance). This bundle of wires is routed up through the hinge at the top of the door where I suspect it is susceptible to break due to the daily opening and closing of the door.

Despite being certain the fault is caused by a broken wire, the engineer reported that he is unable to make the most simple of repairs (reattaching the broken wire) as it is inaccessible inside the door, and the only solution is a full replacement of the freezer door, at a cost of £420 (for the part, plus additional call-out fee, plus VAT). This, plus the £73 already paid for the original call-out represents 51% of the original cost of the appliance.

I contacted Boots Kitchen Appliances, providing details of the fault - including that a) a feature I paid for is not functioning, b) the appliance is making a constant noise that it should not make, and c) I am told there is defective wiring inside an appliance which carries water. I attached the engineer's report and quote for replacing the door, and asked that they repair or replace the appliance. I have included in my communication with them a survey conducted by Which that showed the typical lifetime of a fridge freezer is between 14 and 24 years.

Boots Kitchen Appliances's response is that I have not proven that the appliance was faulty at the time of purchase, therefore they accept no liability. They have offered me the sum of £80, as a goodwill contribution towards my choice of:
a) a new appliance
b) a repair that I arrange of my current appliance
c) an extended warranty that I could buy on the appliance

I feel that the retailer should do more, as the appliance has not met the requirement for satisfactory quality (including durability) in the consumer rights act. An appliance costing £1k should be expected to last if anything at the upper end of the usual duration. This one has failed in less than a quarter of the average lifespan, and its repair will cost over half the original price. Their offer of £80 would be acceptable to me if the cost of the repair were not so high: the fact that the entire door needs replacing just because of a broken wire within seems to be an inherent design flaw preventing economic servicing of the appliance. 

Should I expect more?

Aylesbury_Duck

What amount were you thinking of?  No harm in going back with a counter-claim and seeing what they say, but if your expectation is well away from their best offer, your route would be to get it fixed, then try your chances in the small claims court for more.

Have you considered getting an independent technician to take a look and see if a repair can be made without replacing the whole door?

Sandtree

Does your engineer report opine on the matter of if this is reasonable wear and tear or an inherent fault? As the item is over 6 months old the obligation is on you to prove the item's defective not for the retailer to disprove it.

Secondly, its the retailers decision as to what form of resolution they give you if they do accept its faulty. In this case it would certainly be a refund minus the use you've had from the goods to date. Realistically even the most generous retailers are saying a linear decay over 6 years so at circa 5 years old and £969 original purchase you'd probably be looking at a maximum of £161 refund and the device being taken away.

May be easier to cut your losses and just turn off the ice function unless you'd be happy with £161 and having to buy a new machine.

winsoc

Thanks Sandtree and Aylesbury_Duck

The engineer noted the condition of the appliance is otherwise "Good" which I provided to BKA in support of the view that the appliance had not been subject to misuse. My contention here is that it is an inherent design flaw that makes the wire susceptible to break (a reasonable person expects a freezer door to be opened and closed, and therefore it should be durable to this manner of operation), and at the same time makes it inaccessible for repair. 

There is no feature to turn off the ice function. I can remove the entire ice dispensing unit from the door which alleviates the clanking (the offending flap is part of the unit), but that leaves me with a partially functioning appliance with a rotor whirring away in the door and broken electrical wiring inside.

I think I will try the second-opinion route, to see if a repair could be made without replacing the door. I can also ask the second engineer for an opinion on whether there is an inherent design fault leading to the problem. Depending on the results, possibly a counter-claim to BKA to, say, split the repair cost 50/50.

JJ_Egan

At five years old and further money needing to be spent on a report i would cut my losses .

Sandtree

Not user damage is not the same as saying its unreasonable wear and tear. 

Ultimately the freezer has mechanical moving parts and with the best will in the world even the a £20,000 Sub-Zero fridge/freezer will wear out eventually. The question the expert has to answer is given the price point, is it unreasonable for the wire to have failed after 5 years or not... not everything will last 6 years.

Given the likely settlement cap however it does feel like you may be in a position of wanting to cap your losses and either find a way to disable it or look at another route to fix it.

Alderbank

winsoc said:

There is no feature to turn off the ice function. 

I think I will try the second-opinion route, to see if a repair could be made without replacing the door. I can also ask the second engineer for an opinion on whether there is an inherent design fault leading to the problem. Depending on the results, possibly a counter-claim to BKA to, say, split the repair cost 50/50.

Which model do you have?

I am surprised you have no ice function off. My much older (10yrs+ and working perfectly) Samsung American-style fridge freezer has a 3 way setting for ice cubed, crushed or off. All the current machines seem to have the same control so it's surprising that yours does not.

The broken wires in the door hinge issue has cropped up from time to time over the years. The wires are embedded in solid foam inside the door. I have however traced someone who has successfully done a repair. He says it was not easy but is possible.

http://forum.partsdr.com/showthread.php?4020-RSG257AARS-Freezer-Door-Wire-harness-how-to-replace-it

I got it working. I had 3 plans of attack. A) See if I could repair the wire up near the hinge. Plan B was to snake a new wire (yes it's a low voltage communications line to the front panel) by drilling 2 strategically placed holes in the ABS inner shell then foam them again and replace the ABS that came out. (I've snaked a lot of wires in my day.) Plan C was replace the door but that was 1) not trivial moving all the working parts over, 2) Special Order taking 2 weeks at least, 3) the possibility of the finish on the stainless looking different than the fridge door, and 4) expensive ($380 + shipping).

Plan A worked but it was like doing micro-surgery trying to capture, strip, and solder the wire fragment at the bottom of the hinge cavity. I taped the door closed and removed the hinge giving me a 1" hole to work through. The wire fragment was at the bottom where the hinge ended and cut clean. I stripped the end with a scalpel and hemostat. Fluxed it up and tinned it using a special hand made thin extension for my soldering iron. Then I put a newly tinned piece of wire around it (made a small loop in the end of the new wire). Then loaded up the soldering iron and touched the loop and fragment. It bonded well so I used hot melt glue to cover the splice and when it cooled, I shoved it down below where the hinge could reach it.

As soon as I connected the new extension wire to the original harness on top, the "PC Er" went away and it's been working fine since yesterday. I pulled the harness protector down far enough into the hinge that I'm hoping it eliminates the wire cutting threat. Time will tell. But if it fails again, plan B is the way to go, then Plan C as a last resort.

I can see why a professional repairer would say 'Buy a new door'. But if you have a friend who is handy with electronics or car electrics they should be able to do this for you.

Keep_pedalling

If the ice maker is in the door how else could you possible route the wiring to it? 

Grumpy_chap

winsoc said:

the fault is caused by a wire that is broken, between the control panel (in the freezer door) with the main electronics of the appliance (in the body of the appliance). This bundle of wires is routed up through the hinge at the top of the door where I suspect it is susceptible to break due to the daily opening and closing of the door.

a survey conducted by Which that showed the typical lifetime of a fridge freezer is between 14 and 24 years.

Boots Kitchen Appliances's response is that I have not proven that the appliance was faulty at the time of purchase, therefore they accept no liability. They have offered me the sum of £80, as a goodwill contribution towards my choice of:
a) a new appliance
b) a repair that I arrange of my current appliance
c) an extended warranty that I could buy on the appliance

It does seem as though the report you have verifies that the fault was not present at purchase - also evident from the fact the ice maker has worked for the first 5 years.

The Which? life expectancy seems rather long.  Then again, a very simple fridge freezer has little to actually go wrong.  Your fridge freezer has much more that could fault, but the fundamentals of fridge freezer still perform.

Even if Boots offered a refund, that would be subject to a reduction for the use to date versus life expectancy - you won't get the full £1k back.

The £80 does not seem unreasonable.

Does your fridge freezer have an "ice off" function?  That should stop the system trying to make ice.

winsoc

Grumpy_chap said:

winsoc said:

the fault is caused by a wire that is broken, between the control panel (in the freezer door) with the main electronics of the appliance (in the body of the appliance). This bundle of wires is routed up through the hinge at the top of the door where I suspect it is susceptible to break due to the daily opening and closing of the door.

a survey conducted by Which that showed the typical lifetime of a fridge freezer is between 14 and 24 years.

Boots Kitchen Appliances's response is that I have not proven that the appliance was faulty at the time of purchase, therefore they accept no liability. They have offered me the sum of £80, as a goodwill contribution towards my choice of:
a) a new appliance
b) a repair that I arrange of my current appliance
c) an extended warranty that I could buy on the appliance

It does seem as though the report you have verifies that the fault was not present at purchase - also evident from the fact the ice maker has worked for the first 5 years.

The Which? life expectancy seems rather long.  Then again, a very simple fridge freezer has little to actually go wrong.  Your fridge freezer has much more that could fault, but the fundamentals of fridge freezer still perform.

Even if Boots offered a refund, that would be subject to a reduction for the use to date versus life expectancy - you won't get the full £1k back.

The £80 does not seem unreasonable.

Does your fridge freezer have an "ice off" function?  That should stop the system trying to make ice.

That's strange, I swear I replied yesterday but it's not here now... summary of it was:

• Yes, it has the 3 options (ice, crushed ice, no ice). "No ice" stops it making more. It still dispenses any that's already there, and in my case it still continuously opens and closes the chute. 
• The fault was not present at purchase, confirmed.
• I don't expect a £1k refund.
• What I do expect is a £1k fridge-freezer not to require a £500 repair less than 5 years from new.

It seems I'm alone in thinking that, so I won't labour it any further but thank you all for your responses. I'll try Alderbank's suggestion and see if someone adventurous can have a go at it.

knightstyle

We had a similar problem with a Hotpoint FF and rang Hotpoint and they said if I took out a service plan the fault would be fixed, plan was about £8 a month and minimum a year. They came, assessed the problem then fitted a new door, new wheels and a new plastic tray. I made sure I cancelled after a year so cost was under £100, ask Samsung if they do a similar scheme.