Halifax Share Dealing

AskAsk

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

Tomken said:

I download PDF statements to print but Halifax asked for HSBC verified statements. Went to HSBC branch and was informed by Premiership person they do not do this and Halifax had no right to request them.

PDF documents are not always accepted as they are easily edited.  Paper statements can also be forged but a bit more diffcult than just sitting on your sofa pressing a few buttons to doctor a PDF document  

This is untrue. It is impossible to edit a digitally signed pdf, even a single pixel that is changed will cause the signature verification to fail. It is quite easy to mock up a fake paper version, you can certainly do so while sitting on your sofa using general household IT equipment and software. Certainly in the distant past the converse was true, but things have changed.

you don't edit the original PDF, you print it off to another PDF, make change to that one.  i downloaded my natwest statement and could not make changes but when i printed that to another PDF, i could then make the changes quite easily.

with regard to digital signature, does a bank statement have a digital signature and would the Halifax have a facility to check these signatures?  i am sure with a bit of effort you could put the signatures back on.

masonic

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

Tomken said:

I download PDF statements to print but Halifax asked for HSBC verified statements. Went to HSBC branch and was informed by Premiership person they do not do this and Halifax had no right to request them.

PDF documents are not always accepted as they are easily edited.  Paper statements can also be forged but a bit more diffcult than just sitting on your sofa pressing a few buttons to doctor a PDF document  

This is untrue. It is impossible to edit a digitally signed pdf, even a single pixel that is changed will cause the signature verification to fail. It is quite easy to mock up a fake paper version, you can certainly do so while sitting on your sofa using general household IT equipment and software. Certainly in the distant past the converse was true, but things have changed.

you don't edit the original PDF, you print it off to another PDF, make change to that one.  i downloaded my natwest statement and could not make changes but when i printed that to another PDF, i could then make the changes quite easily.

with regard to digital signature, does a bank statement have a digital signature and would the Halifax have a facility to check these signatures?  i am sure with a bit of effort you could put the signatures back on.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what digital signatures are. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature
I can assure you that "with a bit of effort" you could not  "put the signatures back on". Anyone able to defeat digital signatures would likely first turn their efforts to claiming the world's circulating bitcoin and becoming a multi-billionaire.

AskAsk

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

ranciduk said:

I get monthly paper statements from HSBC for their current account 

doesn’t cost me anything at all

for people who opt for onlne statements, to get the paper statements you have to go into a branch to ask for one and they often charge for this service as it is a one off thing.  if you had opted for paper statements then that is free.

I don't think opting for online statements precludes you from later changing your mind. Certain account types may be online only. Though it is not clear whether a standard paper statement would be "authorized" in the parlance of HSDL.

An original pdf statement, which may be digitally signed, would be more secure than a paper statement, which is easier to forge. Perhaps this is what HSDL means?

you can opt for paper statements again from online but this would mean the OP would have to wait for the next statement so if he wanted a current statement to send to the Halifax then he would need to go to the bank and ask them to print the statement out.  someone said that you could call them to ask for a paper statement but again this will take time and it may not come at all as i have called my bank before to ask for something and it doesn't arrive so you have to chase them.

if the OP goes into the branch, they will be able to give him the paper statement straightaway.  halifax dealing is well behind the times so i think they actually want a paper statement with a written statement from the bank like the stuff you get the solicitor to notarise as a true copy as they have already refused the PDF statements that the OP had sent them.

AskAsk

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

Tomken said:

I download PDF statements to print but Halifax asked for HSBC verified statements. Went to HSBC branch and was informed by Premiership person they do not do this and Halifax had no right to request them.

PDF documents are not always accepted as they are easily edited.  Paper statements can also be forged but a bit more diffcult than just sitting on your sofa pressing a few buttons to doctor a PDF document  

This is untrue. It is impossible to edit a digitally signed pdf, even a single pixel that is changed will cause the signature verification to fail. It is quite easy to mock up a fake paper version, you can certainly do so while sitting on your sofa using general household IT equipment and software. Certainly in the distant past the converse was true, but things have changed.

you don't edit the original PDF, you print it off to another PDF, make change to that one.  i downloaded my natwest statement and could not make changes but when i printed that to another PDF, i could then make the changes quite easily.

with regard to digital signature, does a bank statement have a digital signature and would the Halifax have a facility to check these signatures?  i am sure with a bit of effort you could put the signatures back on.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what digital signatures are. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature
I can assure you that "with a bit of effort" you could not  "put the signatures back on". Anyone able to defeat digital signatures would likely first turn their efforts to claiming the world's circulating bitcoin and becoming a multi-billionaire.

but as i said, are the bank statements downloaded with these signatures and does the Halifax have the facility to check them?  obviously not as they have already refused the PDF statements that the OP had downloaded from his HSBC account.

masonic

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

ranciduk said:

I get monthly paper statements from HSBC for their current account 

doesn’t cost me anything at all

for people who opt for onlne statements, to get the paper statements you have to go into a branch to ask for one and they often charge for this service as it is a one off thing.  if you had opted for paper statements then that is free.

I don't think opting for online statements precludes you from later changing your mind. Certain account types may be online only. Though it is not clear whether a standard paper statement would be "authorized" in the parlance of HSDL.

An original pdf statement, which may be digitally signed, would be more secure than a paper statement, which is easier to forge. Perhaps this is what HSDL means?

you can opt for paper statements again from online but this would mean the OP would have to wait for the next statement so if he wanted a current statement to send to the Halifax then he would need to go to the bank and ask them to print the statement out.  someone said that you could call them to ask for a paper statement but again this will take time and it may not come at all as i have called my bank before to ask for something and it doesn't arrive so you have to chase them.

if the OP goes into the branch, they will be able to give him the paper statement straightaway.  halifax dealing is well behind the times so i think they actually want a paper statement with a written statement from the bank like the stuff you get the solicitor to notarise as a true copy as they have already refused the PDF statements that the OP had sent them.

The OP has not indicated the time-pressure of the situation, but HSBC have already indicated that they will not notarise an original paper statement, so this is a non-starter.

masonic

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

Tomken said:

I download PDF statements to print but Halifax asked for HSBC verified statements. Went to HSBC branch and was informed by Premiership person they do not do this and Halifax had no right to request them.

PDF documents are not always accepted as they are easily edited.  Paper statements can also be forged but a bit more diffcult than just sitting on your sofa pressing a few buttons to doctor a PDF document  

This is untrue. It is impossible to edit a digitally signed pdf, even a single pixel that is changed will cause the signature verification to fail. It is quite easy to mock up a fake paper version, you can certainly do so while sitting on your sofa using general household IT equipment and software. Certainly in the distant past the converse was true, but things have changed.

you don't edit the original PDF, you print it off to another PDF, make change to that one.  i downloaded my natwest statement and could not make changes but when i printed that to another PDF, i could then make the changes quite easily.

with regard to digital signature, does a bank statement have a digital signature and would the Halifax have a facility to check these signatures?  i am sure with a bit of effort you could put the signatures back on.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what digital signatures are. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature
I can assure you that "with a bit of effort" you could not  "put the signatures back on". Anyone able to defeat digital signatures would likely first turn their efforts to claiming the world's circulating bitcoin and becoming a multi-billionaire.

but as i said, are the bank statements downloaded with these signatures and does the Halifax have the facility to check them?  obviously not as they have already refused the PDF statements that the OP had downloaded from his HSBC account.

Yes, the signature of a digitally signed pdf can be verified by Halifax. The OP has not stated whether or not they have provided the original pdf. The only mention is of printing a copy of the pdf (digital signature is lost through the action of printing the electronic document).

AskAsk

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

ranciduk said:

I get monthly paper statements from HSBC for their current account 

doesn’t cost me anything at all

for people who opt for onlne statements, to get the paper statements you have to go into a branch to ask for one and they often charge for this service as it is a one off thing.  if you had opted for paper statements then that is free.

I don't think opting for online statements precludes you from later changing your mind. Certain account types may be online only. Though it is not clear whether a standard paper statement would be "authorized" in the parlance of HSDL.

An original pdf statement, which may be digitally signed, would be more secure than a paper statement, which is easier to forge. Perhaps this is what HSDL means?

you can opt for paper statements again from online but this would mean the OP would have to wait for the next statement so if he wanted a current statement to send to the Halifax then he would need to go to the bank and ask them to print the statement out.  someone said that you could call them to ask for a paper statement but again this will take time and it may not come at all as i have called my bank before to ask for something and it doesn't arrive so you have to chase them.

if the OP goes into the branch, they will be able to give him the paper statement straightaway.  halifax dealing is well behind the times so i think they actually want a paper statement with a written statement from the bank like the stuff you get the solicitor to notarise as a true copy as they have already refused the PDF statements that the OP had sent them.

The OP has not indicated the time-pressure of the situation, but HSBC have already indicated that they will not notarise an original paper statement, so this is a non-starter.

if your dealing account is restricted then i would guess the situation is pretty urgent.  I would advise the OP to speak to his bank again as I have seen these bank statements with written confirmation that the statements are true before unless they no longer provide this service, then perhaps they could advise the OP how he can prove that the statements are original in writing and the OP can pass this on to the Halifax along with the statements.

masonic

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

ranciduk said:

I get monthly paper statements from HSBC for their current account 

doesn’t cost me anything at all

for people who opt for onlne statements, to get the paper statements you have to go into a branch to ask for one and they often charge for this service as it is a one off thing.  if you had opted for paper statements then that is free.

I don't think opting for online statements precludes you from later changing your mind. Certain account types may be online only. Though it is not clear whether a standard paper statement would be "authorized" in the parlance of HSDL.

An original pdf statement, which may be digitally signed, would be more secure than a paper statement, which is easier to forge. Perhaps this is what HSDL means?

you can opt for paper statements again from online but this would mean the OP would have to wait for the next statement so if he wanted a current statement to send to the Halifax then he would need to go to the bank and ask them to print the statement out.  someone said that you could call them to ask for a paper statement but again this will take time and it may not come at all as i have called my bank before to ask for something and it doesn't arrive so you have to chase them.

if the OP goes into the branch, they will be able to give him the paper statement straightaway.  halifax dealing is well behind the times so i think they actually want a paper statement with a written statement from the bank like the stuff you get the solicitor to notarise as a true copy as they have already refused the PDF statements that the OP had sent them.

The OP has not indicated the time-pressure of the situation, but HSBC have already indicated that they will not notarise an original paper statement, so this is a non-starter.

if your dealing account is restricted then i would guess the situation is pretty urgent.  I would advise the OP to speak to his bank again as I have seen these bank statements with written confirmation that the statements are true before unless they no longer provide this service, then perhaps they could advise the OP how he can prove that the statements are original in writing and the OP can pass this on to the Halifax along with the statements.

I can go months without placing any transactions on my dealing accounts. Step 1 would be to clarify exactly what HSDL requires, because there is no such thing as an "authorized" statement.

kaMelo

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

masonic said:

AskAsk said:

Tomken said:

I download PDF statements to print but Halifax asked for HSBC verified statements. Went to HSBC branch and was informed by Premiership person they do not do this and Halifax had no right to request them.

PDF documents are not always accepted as they are easily edited.  Paper statements can also be forged but a bit more diffcult than just sitting on your sofa pressing a few buttons to doctor a PDF document  

This is untrue. It is impossible to edit a digitally signed pdf, even a single pixel that is changed will cause the signature verification to fail. It is quite easy to mock up a fake paper version, you can certainly do so while sitting on your sofa using general household IT equipment and software. Certainly in the distant past the converse was true, but things have changed.

you don't edit the original PDF, you print it off to another PDF, make change to that one.  i downloaded my natwest statement and could not make changes but when i printed that to another PDF, i could then make the changes quite easily.

with regard to digital signature, does a bank statement have a digital signature and would the Halifax have a facility to check these signatures?  i am sure with a bit of effort you could put the signatures back on.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what digital signatures are. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature
I can assure you that "with a bit of effort" you could not  "put the signatures back on". Anyone able to defeat digital signatures would likely first turn their efforts to claiming the world's circulating bitcoin and becoming a multi-billionaire.

but as i said, are the bank statements downloaded with these signatures and does the Halifax have the facility to check them?  obviously not as they have already refused the PDF statements that the OP had downloaded from his HSBC account.

HSBC statements in PDF form do not come digitally signed as standard. They are easy to sign with a self cert signature or with an 'off the shelf' version.  It would appear that HSBC, according to the OP, will do neither.
PDF signatures are viewable on all PDF readers.

Tomken

After Lots of phone conversation with Halifax they say that printed PDF statements are acceptable. Mailed off today and hopefully it is all sorted.