Amex insisting on having my annual income and occupation

Ergates

paul_c123 said:

p00hsticks said:

Chino said:

Momanns said:

Just updates in the law/regulation around KYC/CDD.

What specifically are these "updates" that you refer to?

Probably this

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/692/contents

And where in that legislation does it REQUIRE the bank to know the annual income and occupation? There is a requirement to identify, and obligations to carry out due diligence for assessing eg affordability, but no requirement to know the info in the OP/title of thread.

Lets see if you can figure this one out for yourself....

jonesey1985

Ergates said:

paul_c123 said:

p00hsticks said:

Chino said:

Momanns said:

Just updates in the law/regulation around KYC/CDD.

What specifically are these "updates" that you refer to?

Probably this

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/692/contents

And where in that legislation does it REQUIRE the bank to know the annual income and occupation? There is a requirement to identify, and obligations to carry out due diligence for assessing eg affordability, but no requirement to know the info in the OP/title of thread.

Lets see if you can figure this one out for yourself....

You bolded the wrong parts.

The OP was asking where it is legislated.  And it isn't.

However that doesn't mean the FCA can't fine them for it, nor the FOS uphold a complaint against them, so they're not really going to bother keeping them as a customer when they have more compliant (and sensible) customers who don't particularly care that a well known and respected financial institution has information about them that they already gave years ago, now in a slightly more updated form.

I swear I don't know how these people exist in daily life. They constantly seem to make a rod for their own backs.

andyeyeam

It is great my post has attracted a lot of comments. It fascinates me the way people miss the point by such a distance. Anyone who understands the nature and working practices of financial institutions will always have a healthy mistrust of them. This forum is great and has really helped me on this topic. Thanks.

nyermen

Apologies if this is already mentioned somewhere in the 5 pages of thread, but at least some of the FCA responsible lending guidelines are here:
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/5.pdf

Latest update is this month (Nov 2021) though I've not looked into what changed.  Future regulations are published early, theres an interactive view which you can use to see past & future changes.  Haven't gone any deeper, this may be why the new push on KYC details.

I would refer for example, to sections 5.2A.4 and 5.2A.5. The phrase "must not"...

mcpitman

nyermen said:

Apologies if this is already mentioned somewhere in the 5 pages of thread, but at least some of the FCA responsible lending guidelines are here:
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/5.pdf

Latest update is this month (Nov 2021) though I've not looked into what changed.  Future regulations are published early, theres an interactive view which you can use to see past & future changes.  Haven't gone any deeper, this may be why the new push on KYC details.

I would refer for example, to sections 5.2A.4 and 5.2A.5. The phrase "must not"...

Yeah, the whole of section 5.2 kinda covers the question of "why do they need to know this info".

Ergates

andyeyeam said:

It is great my post has attracted a lot of comments. It fascinates me the way people miss the point by such a distance. Anyone who understands the nature and working practices of financial institutions will always have a healthy mistrust of them. This forum is great and has really helped me on this topic. Thanks.

There is a point where healthy mistrust becomes paranoia though, and an understanding of the working practices, rules and regulations around banking also helps to understand *why* financial institutions might be asking certain questions.

paul_c123

mcpitman said:

nyermen said:

Apologies if this is already mentioned somewhere in the 5 pages of thread, but at least some of the FCA responsible lending guidelines are here:
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/5.pdf

Latest update is this month (Nov 2021) though I've not looked into what changed.  Future regulations are published early, theres an interactive view which you can use to see past & future changes.  Haven't gone any deeper, this may be why the new push on KYC details.

I would refer for example, to sections 5.2A.4 and 5.2A.5. The phrase "must not"...

Yeah, the whole of section 5.2 kinda covers the question of "why do they need to know this info".

The devil is in the detail, though. There is a requirement to assess affordability at the start of a credit agreement; and if (significant) credit limit increases are made, at the time. And also if cumulative smaller credit limit increases are made then a reassessment is required periodically. But for the instance (which I think applies here) where its running credit with no changes in the credit limit, there is discretion placed on the bank to decide when and they can make reasonable assumptions. 

Of course, a bank may choose that discretionary ongoing assessment is through the form of insisting they at least ask for the employment/salary details. But that's not a black and white requirement. For example it could reasonably be argued that past account management was used to assess the affordability of future credit. Most banks do this anyway, and especially if the customer holds their current account with them anyway (so they can assume a fairly complete picture of income as well as expenditure) with their internal risk model.

It would be interesting to hear back from the OP on the detail of "insisting" - is it possible to press a "Skip" or similar button and still enter the online/mobile banking platform, or is that facility unavailable until the information is entered?

andyeyeam

paul_c123 said:

mcpitman said:

nyermen said:

Apologies if this is already mentioned somewhere in the 5 pages of thread, but at least some of the FCA responsible lending guidelines are here:
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/5.pdf

Latest update is this month (Nov 2021) though I've not looked into what changed.  Future regulations are published early, theres an interactive view which you can use to see past & future changes.  Haven't gone any deeper, this may be why the new push on KYC details.

I would refer for example, to sections 5.2A.4 and 5.2A.5. The phrase "must not"...

Yeah, the whole of section 5.2 kinda covers the question of "why do they need to know this info".

The devil is in the detail, though. There is a requirement to assess affordability at the start of a credit agreement; and if (significant) credit limit increases are made, at the time. And also if cumulative smaller credit limit increases are made then a reassessment is required periodically. But for the instance (which I think applies here) where its running credit with no changes in the credit limit, there is discretion placed on the bank to decide when and they can make reasonable assumptions. 

Of course, a bank may choose that discretionary ongoing assessment is through the form of insisting they at least ask for the employment/salary details. But that's not a black and white requirement. For example it could reasonably be argued that past account management was used to assess the affordability of future credit. Most banks do this anyway, and especially if the customer holds their current account with them anyway (so they can assume a fairly complete picture of income as well as expenditure) with their internal risk model.

It would be interesting to hear back from the OP on the detail of "insisting" - is it possible to press a "Skip" or similar button and still enter the online/mobile banking platform, or is that facility unavailable until the information is entered?

The mobile app would not function without providing the detail. No skip option. They said they would close my account without the info.

emmajones1976

Have you now provided it?

andyeyeam

Yes I did. This forum was helpful in persuading me the request was for good reason. Although I think some on this thread will be disappointed to learn it did not involve reference to drug money or money laundering LOL 😎😎😎

 I do retain my healthy mistrust of financial institutions generally though 😉