Claim Form (county court business centre) received - 2016 PCNs x 2 + a legal letter for 3rd PCN!

RS789

Hi all, 

I've had a read through the Newbies thread (post no.2) before making this post.  I have some questions, so thought I'd post. 

The background - I used to live (between late 2015 and 2017) in a block of flats that had a private carpark, managed by UK Parking Control Limited.  In my time living there, I had a total of three PCNs that I recall, and certainly paid two of them (I am now looking back through bank statements!).  The final PCN was received and I chose to ignore it having had a chat with the guys issuing tickets and they said they just "go away", after complaining to them that they are standing over cars waiting for the clock to tick over.  Unfortanately, a lot has happened since 2016, so I don't have any evidence of this.

Fast forward 2-3 years, and I started receiving letters from DCB Legal on this matter (at my new address) - I just (stupidly?!) binned them whenever I got them, without even noting the PCN dates. 

A few days ago I received a "Claim Form" with reference to the County Court Business Centre - the Issue date is 11 October 2021.  This has two PCN dates referenced (10/03/2016 & 27/07/2016) and a total claim (including fees/legal reps) of £501.63. 

Since then I also received another DCB Legal letter (dated 12 October) claiming to be a "formal Letter of Claim" for another PCN on 06/10/2016 (£160).  I believe this to be the PCN that I chose to ignore (the last of 3), and believe the other two are ones that I've actually paid! The only other possibility is that I didn't actually receive said tickets (i.e. someone removed them before I got to the car - there was a spate of this at the flats!) - albeit I suspect right now this is the least of my worries.  As this all happened so long ago, I'm relying on my memory! 

By my reading, I have until 30 October to get the ball rolling - the Claim Form issue date (11 Oct) + 5 days (16 Oct) + 14 days (30 Oct. Nonetheless, I intend to get the initial actions done today/tomorrow.

So the actions that I'm planning on taking are;

1. Send UK Parking Control Limited a SAR - I've found their DPO email, and will be following the advice of the Newbies thread in terms of the wording.  
2. To email Dcblegal stating that I am seeking debt advice, deny the debt, and that the case must be put on hold for 30 days.

My questions are;

1. When I send the SAR, I assume (reading the wording in newbies thread) that I should receive all the evidence of the three (or more!?) PCNs, even though two are subject to the claim at this point. Will I receive,  or can I ask for,  any information on tickets I've paid to date? As set out above, i think I only ever received three PCNS and I believe I paid two. 
2. I note that any claim must be for all PCNs, not several separate claims - do I just make this point and leave it at that? Right now the claim is for 2 of 3. 
3. When I email Dcblegal should I only be focussing on the Claim Form (with 2 PCNs) at this point?  I assume that I have to reference the "claim no. on the County Court Business Centre".  They have been sending correspondence to the correct address, but I intend to reiterate my address as being the address for service.
4. Finally, once I do the two above actions, other than me looking through bank statements and seeing if I can recover any old pictures from my phone from 2016, and thinking about the defence points I want to take, do I need to do anything else? I assume that I just wait to receive the SAR and then after 30 days I'll receive fresh papers to prepare my defence?

Thank you kindly! 

Le_Kirk

You cannot ask for the one for which you have received a N1 claim form to be put on hold due to seeking debt advice, as that is part of the pre-action protocol and you are now in the action phase but you can for the later one.

D_P_Dance

... and a total claim (including fees/legal reps) of £501.63. 

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amounts for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

KeithP

RS789 said:

A few days ago I received a "Claim Form" with reference to the County Court Business Centre - the Issue date is 11 October 2021. 

By my reading, I have until 30 October to get the ball rolling - the Claim Form issue date (11 Oct) + 5 days (16 Oct) + 14 days (30 Oct. Nonetheless, I intend to get the initial actions done today/tomorrow.

Hello and welcome to the forum.

You will receive nothing further prompting you to file a Defence.

With a Claim Issue Date of 11th October, you have until Monday 1st November to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 15th November 2021 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Coupon-mad

How can two PCNs be over £500? Please copy the particulars of claim here (minus your VRM).

RS789

Coupon-mad said:

How can two PCNs be over £500? Please copy the particulars of claim here (minus your VRM).

Here is what the PoC say, redacted accordingly,

1. The defendant(D) is indebted to the Claimant(C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to vehicle **** at [address]
2. The PCN details are 10/03/2016 [PCN no], 21/07/2016 [PCN no]
3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Cs signs (the Contract), thus incurring the PCN(s)
4. The driver agreed to pau within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN(s) is outstanding.  The Contract entitled C to damages 

AND THE CLAIMAINT CLAIMS;

1. £320 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 
2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the COunty Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.04 until judgement or sooner paument
3. Costs and court fees 

The breakdown (provided in a little table) is;
Amount Claimed - £401.63
Court Fee - £50
Legal costs - £50
Total amount - £501.63. 

Coupon-mad

So £120 added in false 'damages' that were never incurred and over £80 in interest as some sort of reward for sitting on it for years, and wrongly calculated on the whole £320 from day one.

Kerchiiing! £200 (already extortionate) becomes so high it incurs the £50 court fee.  This industry should hang their heads in shame.

D_P_Dance

But we have the comfort that mostt jugdges recognise these scams.  It is a pity that they do not come down hard on them, usually they award the victim with a bag of peanuts, 

RS789

Thank you all for your advice so far.  I've not taken the following actions;

• I have submitted a SAR with UK Parking Control Limited - generic auto reply received
• I have emailed DCBL legal, setting out denial of the debt and confirming I've submitted an SAR with UKPC. 
• I have used the MCOL website and completed the AoS - all confirmed, PDFs etc saved. 

Now I will start trawling these forums to see what defence points I can use - any pointers here appreciated. 

I do have a question - if the SAR information doesn't come in before my deadline of defence submission (4pm on Monday 15th November 2021), does that mean I don't have the opportunity to see their side of the argument beforehand and have to go ahead in my defence without knowing what to expect? 

Thanks! 

RS789

RS789 said:

Thank you all for your advice so far.  I've not taken the following actions;

• I have submitted a SAR with UK Parking Control Limited - generic auto reply received
• I have emailed DCBL legal, setting out denial of the debt and confirming I've submitted an SAR with UKPC. 
• I have used the MCOL website and completed the AoS - all confirmed, PDFs etc saved. 

Now I will start trawling these forums to see what defence points I can use - any pointers here appreciated. 

I do have a question - if the SAR information doesn't come in before my deadline of defence submission (4pm on Monday 15th November 2021), does that mean I don't have the opportunity to see their side of the argument beforehand and have to go ahead in my defence without knowing what to expect? 

Thanks! 

The bit it bold should have read "I've now taken the following actions" rather than "I've not"! 

RS789

I've received a request for more information re the SAR - they want verification of identity from UKPC;

As we have received your request via email, we will need to take steps to verify your identity before we can process your request.

Please can you confirm your identity as per the following for verification purposes (if you are the keeper of the vehicle, if you are not, we would need the information of the keeper of the vehicle as well as confirmation that you are authorised to receive the subject access request documents):

iii) your vehicle log book (V5C) to prove ownership of the vehicle.

iv) your Parking Charge Notice reference number

Once we are satisfied with the information you have provided us, we will then process your subject access request.

Kindly take notice that as we have requested to verify your identity, we are obligated to inform you of the following:

1. The reasons as to why we have requested additional information from you (please refer to the above reasoning)

2. You have the right to make a complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office; and

3. You have the ability to seek to enforce your right to erasure of the data through judicial remedy and processes.

Kind Regards

Data Protection Team

I'm not clear if they require both items they've listed, or just one.

They're asking for the V5C.  That car is long gone, however I was the registered keeper at the time of the PCNs.  Do I just state that? 

I have the PCN reference numbers (x2 that are on the claim forms). Do I include the 3rd, for which DCLB Legal have recently sent me (as reference in my opening post)?  I assume this is just an identity check thing only?  The SAR request sets out that I want all data in any case, which they should be complying with? 

Thanks