Listed Building - Indemnity insurance small print

camcclements

Hi all,

I'm in the process of buying a Grade II listed property. The building survey identified some modifications made over 40 years ago - removal of a chimney and installation of a roof light - which do not have planning permission or listed building consent. The modifications were made by a previous owner (not the current owner).

I've been offered an indemnity policy and while I understand indemnity policies provide a certain level of protection, they all have a clause to the effect: the policy will be invalidated if the existence of the problem is revealed to third parties.

Does this mean that if I was to apply for planning permission/listed building consent to make a new modification (i.e. knock down internal wall) that is completely unrelated to the prior offending modifications (chimney removal and roof light) and a conservation officer was to notice said offending modifications without me pointing them out during a routine visit to assess the new unrelated planning application - the indemnity policy would be invalidated? 

Or would it only be invalidated if I was to specifically mention the offending modifications to the planning officer?

Your advice much appreciated in advance!

FreeBear

Do you know when the property was listed ?

You can search here - https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/ - It may be possible that an amendment has been made to reflect the changes made since the original listing.

As for the exclusion clause, ask your solicitor for a written opinion - If he gets it wrong, you have someone to pin the blame on.

Section62

camcclements said:

I'm in the process of buying a Grade II listed property. The building survey identified some modifications made over 40 years ago - removal of a chimney and installation of a roof light - which do not have planning permission or listed building consent. The modifications were made by a previous owner (not the current owner).

Does the listing pre-date the modifications?  Not all listings do.

Is the chimney, or the roof (particularly where the window is), mentioned as specific items in the listing?

How do you (/the surveyor) know when the changes were made - is there documentary evidence of the date?

So long as the features weren't especially important, and the 40 years elapsed is correct, the risk of enforcement action is towards the lower end of the scale.  If the changes were made pre-listing then it isn't a problem at all.

camcclements said:

Does this mean that if I was to apply for planning permission/listed building consent to make a new modification (i.e. knock down internal wall).....

This, rather than 40 year old modifications, is what I would be focusing on in your position.  Getting consent for significant modifications is not always easy, would you still buy the property if the conservation officer says 'no'?

If not being able to remove the wall would seriously impact on the suitability of the house for my purposes then I'd want to have a conversation with the conservation officer before exchange to make sure there is a reasonable chance of getting consent.

LB 'problems' typically occur because a new owner wants to put their stamp on the property and make it suit their needs.  The reality, from the council's perspective at least, is that things need to be the other way around - primarily the owner needs to adapt their needs to the property.

Talking to the conservation officer before exchange (or later) does obviously come at the risk of them viewing the property and noticing any discrepancy between the listing and what is standing there today.  And certainly could impact on the validity of any related indemnity policy.

user1977

I would interpret as meaning actually highlighting the unauthorised nature of the previous alteration in some way, not merely applying for consent for new works. But in any event it seems rather unlikely that the planners would suddenly decide they've got a problem with works done 40 years ago.

camcclements

Section62 said:

Does the listing pre-date the modifications?  Not all listings do.

Is the chimney, or the roof (particularly where the window is), mentioned as specific items in the listing?

How do you (/the surveyor) know when the changes were made - is there documentary evidence of the date?

The listing (1960) does pre-date the modifications (~ early 1980s). I know the modifications were made around this time because I obtained photos of the house from 1977 which show the rear chimney in situ but no roof light. The current owner who purchased the house in 1984 and who is now 90 years old says the chimney wasn't there when she moved in but the roof light was so the modifications must have been made between 1977 and 1984.

The Historic England listing description is brief (confirmed as the full version not shortened as some are) and doesn't mention the rear of the house at all. It does mention a 'Double stack to left of centre' still in place but doesn't mention the removed chimney at all.

"Early C18 brown brick front with grey brick banding course and panels, whitewashed stucco on left hand return front. Plain tiled roofs with tile hung half-hip to end left. Two storeys. Street front:- Double stack to left of centre. Three casements to first floor, the outer windows 3-light, two cambered head casement windows to ground floor. Door to right in margin lights under pentice hood."