Non-existent return flight

mikey42

Currently have a package holiday booked with TUI for August 2022. It was originally booked for 2020, but has been put back twice to next year at our own choosing - having to pay for the privilege of doing so on both occasions. Last change was made well over a year before the travel dates.

A few months back I noticed our pre-booked seat allocations had disappeared from the app details. A bit of digging showed that the return flight didn't seem to exist any more. Querying this with TUI via email resulted in a re-assurance that our holiday was still booked and due to go ahead as planned and that our seats were still showing booked on a separate internal system. Accepted this, although with a bit of lingering doubt as am aware of the chaos ref flight changes in these times.

However, as time has gone on it has become more obvious that TUI have simply finalised their schedules for next year and there are no flights from PMI to CWL on Mondays (the affected flight).

Have again queried this with TUI however now told that the holiday is due to go ahead as planned, but any changes/cancellations will be notified in due course - and that their cancellation/change team are currently working on anything departing within 21 days. And in red, bold text, that they consider my query on the matter closed for now!

So, realistically I already know the holiday will either be: a)cancelled by TUI, b) be changed automatically to less nights or c) be given an option to fly from elsewhere.

We desperately want to go on holiday next year - having had to work as key workers throughout the pandemic, postponing it twice has made us look forward to it even more; but with two young children and extremely limited scope to change annual leave already booked at short notice, fear leaving it until TUI decide within 21 days what's happening, will only force a cancellation last minute.

Prices have already shot up since re-booking last time - to do so again now would also add a £450 change fee (on top of the two fees we already paid!)

Is there likely to be anything we can do not to risk losing the hefty deposit we've already paid or having to stress about a holiday we know isn't going ahead as planned, until just 3 weeks before?!

MATTR5

Hi Mikey42

The best result you can have here BY FAR is to wait for TUI to cancel the holiday - the reason being when they do you will get ALL your admin fees back so a complete refund of everything you have paid up to that point - see there rules below - they are not simple to understand but basically it states you will get them back when they cancel you - and as your return flight doesnt exist they will HAVE to cancel you 

TUI rules of refund of admin fees (note its written as if holiday already cancelled but this is the relevant bit) 

I PAID FEES TO CHANGE MY HOLIDAY/ AO/FO AS AT THE TIME I WAS NOT ENTITLED TO A FREE CHANGE, MY HOLIDAY HAS NOW BEEN CANCELLED BY TUI AND I HAVE RECEIVED A REFUND HOWEVER I AM MISSING THE REFUND FOR THE AMEND/CHANGE FEES. We are sorry to hear this and will process this refund for you. Internal notes:  The refund will include any previous amend fees charged e.g. Name change as well as any date change, not just the most recent.  The policy is effective from 7/4/21 for any holidays cancelled from this date.  This policy also applies to customers who have amended a holiday with a 3PF element.  The policy does not apply for customers who have amended their holiday before our July free amends policy was introduced and their booking is still live i.e. TUI has not cancelled the holiday that the customer has amended to and therefore is not entitled to a refund for the change fee.  If a customer chooses to amend to an alternative holiday, they will not be refunded any previous amend fees charged

The problem is they will almost certainly not contact you until after you have paid your full balance - they could contact you earlieror not until 3 weeks before departure - it varies by booking to be honest 

You could try calling them every few weeks and being pleasant but pressing them that you need them to cancel it sooner - try 0203 451 2688  but understand Tour Ops are behind with their admin at the moment and are dealing with bookings in date order. Its annoying i know but these are crazy times still  - on the hold menu it might say hang up if outsuide off 2 weeks - just ignore that and keep holding 

If they stick to their guns and say you have to wait then you can either cancel now - you'd lose everything youve paid (Please try to avoid this) 

or Amend again and incur more fees (Please try and avoid this too) 

or wait as advised above

Yes prices are going up with other Tour Ops but just the other day Jet2holidays released a load of Free Child places so its up and down

If it was me i'd either wait until TUI cancelled me and and then you'll have all the money youve paid towwards a new holiday 
or
I'd book something with another operator who only wants a Low Deposit and have that as back-up eg Jet2holidays or Easyjet Holidays

Youre going to hate this last bit but it has to be included - it could get to the point where you have to pay the balance on two holidays if you take that last option.  - if you cant afford to do this could you borrow the money eg via a credit card just for the approx  7 weeks when you will have paid the balance on eg Jet2hol and TUI hol and are waiting for TUI to cancel the first one? If not then that 2nd option wont really work  

Im sorry this is a long explanation but ive tried to cover all bases for you - none of the options are prefect but some are better than others

I am a Travel Agent

My company’s ABTA/ATOL numbers are G9172/6053. MSE doesn't check my status as a Travel Agent, so you need to take my word for it. You can check my ATOL with the CAA. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Travel Agent Code of Conduct.

mikey42

MATTR5, thanks. Are you aware if, under our circumstance - where the originally booked holiday can not physically proceed exactly as booked as the return flight no longer exists - that it is sufficient to allow us to elect to have a full refund at the time TUI acknowledge the issue; rather than them just being able to offer us alternatives?

Looks like that being the case and as you state above, to guarantee (as best we can in covid times!) a holiday next year will be to make a second booking!

MATTR5

mikey42 said:

MATTR5, thanks. Are you aware if, under our circumstance - where the originally booked holiday can not physically proceed exactly as booked as the return flight no longer exists - that it is sufficient to allow us to elect to have a full refund at the time TUI acknowledge the issue; rather than them just being able to offer us alternatives?

Looks like that being the case and as you state above, to guarantee (as best we can in covid times!) a holiday next year will be to make a second booking!

I think you're doing the right thing - and don't forget before you book the new one post it in the "Beat my Quote" Forum thread to make sure you have the lowest price  

I am a Travel Agent

My company’s ABTA/ATOL numbers are G9172/6053. MSE doesn't check my status as a Travel Agent, so you need to take my word for it. You can check my ATOL with the CAA. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Travel Agent Code of Conduct.

k3lvc

mikey42 said:

 Are you aware if, under our circumstance - where the originally booked holiday can not physically proceed exactly as booked as the return flight no longer exists - that it is sufficient to allow us to elect to have a full refund at the time TUI acknowledge the issue; rather than them just being able to offer us alternatives?

Your flight doesn't exist on paper at the moment but the world's evolving/responding quickly. PMI-UK flights aren't the most difficult for them to bring back in at relatively short notice and get good loads even if they're not showing now

I'd be interested whether @MATTR5 sees any loophole but I'd expect TUI to take this right to the wire before advising of changes

MATTR5

k3lvc said:

mikey42 said:

 Are you aware if, under our circumstance - where the originally booked holiday can not physically proceed exactly as booked as the return flight no longer exists - that it is sufficient to allow us to elect to have a full refund at the time TUI acknowledge the issue; rather than them just being able to offer us alternatives?

Your flight doesn't exist on paper at the moment but the world's evolving/responding quickly. PMI-UK flights aren't the most difficult for them to bring back in at relatively short notice and get good loads even if they're not showing now

I'd be interested whether @MATTR5 sees any loophole but I'd expect TUI to take this right to the wire before advising of changes

Hi k3lvc

You're right they could add flights but Cardiff is not a big airport for them and they have the whole season with no flights   Mondays and Wednesdays 
They make the big profits on early bookers and - though COVID has put us all in uncharted territory - I've never known them to add flights on days they don't fly in Lates period - i'd say if the flights arent going approx 11 weeks prior then they ain't going - if they load them before that but after mikey42 has booked something else he'll be able to amend either the TUI or the one he's booked - i'd really hope they'd have caught up by then - they'll get a lot of calls from people who've spotted the missing flights

Also, TUI could add fee-free changes nearer the time - they currently offer fee-free changes for departures up to Apr 22 and they have been rolling this date forward consistently but if COVID goes away that could stop  

TUI will probably offer a change of departure airport - but mikey42 doesn't have to accept this as its a major change

The big opportunity here is to get all the TUI admin fees back - that's why I think the gamble of booking with another Tour Op is worth it in this case - but nothin in life is Guaranteed so mikey42 ultimately has to weigh ti all up 

I am a Travel Agent

My company’s ABTA/ATOL numbers are G9172/6053. MSE doesn't check my status as a Travel Agent, so you need to take my word for it. You can check my ATOL with the CAA. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Travel Agent Code of Conduct.

 

TadleyBaggie

I once had a return flight on a TUI holiday that didn't seem to exist until a few weeks before the holiday.

mikey42

So having contacted them today, as predicted they aren't willing to cancel it yet; the reason being that they could reinstate flights on Mondays between now and next year.

I accept that could be a possibility - I don't need to be a travel business expert to see that if the industry picks up or the demand is there that they wouldn't - presumably the number of flights they're planning is still quite some way off pre-pandemic levels, so as (or if) things start to improve, of course they could increase capacity. I'm just dubious that I can't see any massive improvements between now and next August that would mean it's a given. Particularly as pointed out, Cardiff isn't likely to be the most in demand airport.

That being the case, looks like we're going to have to live with the uncertainty for a bit longer. I guess the only disappointment may be that we won't be able to go on the exact holiday we've planned - but if it comes to that at least we won't lose any money already put down. Having been curious to see how it would have compared had we kept the booking for this year's dates, we could have had exactly the same holiday for almost £1000 less on a last min booking - so there are bound to be deals to be had next year!

Westin

Just a thought but TUI might be planning to hold and sell an allocation on the Vueling service which does operate on a Monday CWL PMI.  Possibly yet to tie down the commercials and therefore the flights are not fully loaded in their system.  

Other possible options TUI may eventually offer are ex CWL but on either Sunday or Tuesday.   Or ex BRS, same day options.

I know you are concerned but August 2022 is so far off and lots can change.  I think you probably understand why TUI are currently dealing with holiday changes in the very near future first.  I expect the current 21 days you mention will change and as they ramp back up this time frame will improve.   I have a feeling by December/January their programmes will be better known for 2022 and you will certainly be contacted about any changes way before -21 days.

Think I would be tempted to stuff all the TUI paperwork in a drawer for now, forget about possible disruption for 10 months time and focus on Christmas plans.

mikey42

So, just to update this - fair play to TUI, just over 9 months from the date of departure an email lands in my inbox apologising that they've had to cancel the flight! As a result they offered to move the holiday to depart the day before (and return a day earlier) for no extra cost, or to re-book with a 10% incentive or to cancel with a full refund.

As I can't do the day before (due to very restrictive leave dates) and predictably most holidays for the same dates with TUI have gone up by more than 10% of what it originally cost, I took the refund and promptly booked a better holiday on the originate dates with Jet2 - for less than the original TUI one!

onashoestring

Thanks @mikey42 for the update. A very positive outcome. How long did it take from accepting the refund to receiving it ?