Govt. plans to target mortgages to EPC's could leave many homes unsaleable

Doozergirl

NameUnavailable said:

tacpot12 said:

As ProDave says, people really need to start worrying about the EPC of the properties they are buying, but I don't think any government would get away with making it difficult to get mortgages on 40% of the UK housing stock. There would be riots, and a lot more homelessnes.

Homelessness yes, I agree. Riots? hardly! Maybe some letters in the local papers, the odd petition but not riots. When did we last see riots in the UK over anything political? Brexit? No. Lack of action over Covid and 180k deaths? No. Who is going to riot over house prices?

Ironically, perhaps, there's probably more chance of people getting angry about the price of their house than empty shelves, inflation and their neighbours dying!

strawb_shortcake

I've just looked at our EPC, currently E with potential to reach A to get to this we would need:

Loft insulation £350
Cavity wall insulation £1500
Solid Floor insulation £6000 only the kitchen and small entrance way is solid
Solar water heating £6000
Solar panels £8000 

All the work above would get us to C

Wind Turbine £25000

Total costs £46,800
Potential savings £1,431 pa
Years to pay back 32


We also have oil central heating and the report makes no reference to changing this. 

We could actually afford to do all the work above if we wanted, but I'm not sure we'd want to and what sort of increase to our home we could expect to know just how worthwhile it would be? 

Gavin83

BikingBud said:

sammyjammy said:

I own a mid terrace Victorian house like tens of thousands of others across the country, I can't imagine how much money it would cost to get our properties to a C if its even possible!

Would it be less than the perceived inflated value due to just sitting in it?

Rather than sinking 15-20k into a house because someone fancies a new bathroom or kitchen, how about investing the money to improve the energy efficiency?

Because despite what we’re told I think the majority still don’t really care about climate change. Certainly not enough to be sinking £20k into green initiatives anyway.

A new kitchen is exciting, more insulation or a heat pump which is worse than the boiler it’s replacing is not. If I had that kind of money burning a hole in my pocket I’d much rather spend it on a kitchen and I expect 95% of the population would agree with me.

Gavin83

annabanana82 said:

I've just looked at our EPC, currently E with potential to reach A to get to this we would need:

Loft insulation £350
Cavity wall insulation £1500
Solid Floor insulation £6000 only the kitchen and small entrance way is solid
Solar water heating £6000
Solar panels £8000 

All the work above would get us to C

Wind Turbine £25000

Total costs £46,800
Potential savings £1,431 pa
Years to pay back 32


We also have oil central heating and the report makes no reference to changing this. 

We could actually afford to do all the work above if we wanted, but I'm not sure we'd want to and what sort of increase to our home we could expect to know just how worthwhile it would be? 

Who the hell has their own wind turbine? I didn’t even know that was an option!

For the record I think the loft insulation is worth doing, depending on what you’ve already got up there. The others I’d certainly be questioning the value in bothering. The solid floor insulation in particular seems bad value for money, it’s my understanding it makes little difference.

I’ve got a friend who has solar water heating and he never uses it. Says it’s a waste of time and the costs to service it outweigh the savings from not using gas. Go figure.

strawb_shortcake

Gavin83 said:

annabanana82 said:

I've just looked at our EPC, currently E with potential to reach A to get to this we would need:

Loft insulation £350
Cavity wall insulation £1500
Solid Floor insulation £6000 only the kitchen and small entrance way is solid
Solar water heating £6000
Solar panels £8000 

All the work above would get us to C

Wind Turbine £25000

Total costs £46,800
Potential savings £1,431 pa
Years to pay back 32


We also have oil central heating and the report makes no reference to changing this. 

We could actually afford to do all the work above if we wanted, but I'm not sure we'd want to and what sort of increase to our home we could expect to know just how worthwhile it would be? 

Who the hell has their own wind turbine? I didn’t even know that was an option!

For the record I think the loft insulation is worth doing, depending on what you’ve already got up there. The others I’d certainly be questioning the value in bothering. The solid floor insulation in particular seems bad value for money, it’s my understanding it makes little difference.

I’ve got a friend who has solar water heating and he never uses it. Says it’s a waste of time and the costs to service it outweigh the savings from not using gas. Go figure.

Of all of it the wind turbine looked the coolest, and we'd probably be in a good position to sell back to the national grid with our quite open location. 

I've no idea what is in the loft,  it did say to increase to 270, so assume there is some insulation already. It's all boarded out but needs a good sorting out as my Husband is a bit of a hoarder. As and when we clear the loft we will look to improve the insulation. 

ProDave

EPC's were introduced many years ago.  Most people have ignored them until now, with the exception of landlords where properties must meet a certain level before being allowed to let and that level will get higher over time.

This is just the start of the debate and how to solve it.  Lots might say just ignore it, I will continue pumping lots of heat into my house and continue using my gas boiler until the environment police come and physically remove it.  I bet most of those will also be saying I will buy a new IC car in the last year they are on sale and maintain it to keep it running as long as physically possible.

The fact is if we are going to meet out CO2 reduction targets, houses and how we heat them has to be addresses.  The argument is just beginning on how we do that, who pays, and when it stops being encouragement and becomes compulsory.

You can bury your head in the sands if you like, but anyone buying a house from now on really might want to look carefully at the EPC, look carefully at what can be done and how much it will cost, and make an informed decision which house to buy and how much to pay for it.

The ones upset will of course be those owning poor EPC houses if the value of their houses starts to fall in relation to good ones.

Section62

ProDave said:

The ones upset will of course be those owning poor EPC houses if the value of their houses starts to fall in relation to good ones.

According to Nationwide BS this is already happening.

Folk are going to have to get to grips with the idea that a poor EPC rating is going to have a similar effect to trying to sell a house with no central heating, or having an avocado bathroom suite.

It will sell, but only at a value which reflects the cost of upgrading to the standards expected for modern living.


Just as people do now (with their avocado bathrooms) the choice will be doing some upgrades (borrowing the money if necessary) to maximise the marketing value, or else decide to take a hit on the value and let someone else deal with the hassle of upgrades.

To be clear though, I'm not saying I think this is a good idea, rather that it is an inevitable consequence of people saying that something must be done about the 'climate crisis', coupled with our over-reliance on gas as an energy source.

maisie_cat

We moved our last house, a 1930's detached with 9 inch solid brick walls from an E to a B, mostly by internally insulating, replacing windows and adding solar thermal. 
We recently had a new EPC for our biomass system's RHI claim, there are issues with the assumptions made and old houses, more likely to have quirky features tend to lose out.
The assessor told me that the system can't deal with our structure and some things that we have that favourably affect energy efficiency are ignored because the system can't deal with them.
So we get a high RHI payment but the only way to get to a B is to install a wind turbine at a cost of £60k!
I suspect this will be tempered in some way as many politicians live in old family piles that must be very inefficient!

Speedbird676

I did notice a couple of mortgage deals yesterday from Natwest and RBS that were only available for properties with an EPC of B or above.

I also viewed a property yesterday which is in a Grade 2 listed building. It was rated E with potential to reach C, but the top two recommendations were to replace the windows and to install cavity wall insulation, neither of which I would be able to do autonomously under the Grade 2 listing. 

That then got me thinking about my current property, so I looked at the EPCs for my flat and the other 7 on my floor. They're all rated either B or C although the content of each varies, as do the recommendations, despite all 8 flats being identical!

BikingBud

Gavin83 said:

BikingBud said:

sammyjammy said:

I own a mid terrace Victorian house like tens of thousands of others across the country, I can't imagine how much money it would cost to get our properties to a C if its even possible!

Would it be less than the perceived inflated value due to just sitting in it?

Rather than sinking 15-20k into a house because someone fancies a new bathroom or kitchen, how about investing the money to improve the energy efficiency?

Because despite what we’re told I think the majority still don’t really care about climate change. Certainly not enough to be sinking £20k into green initiatives anyway.

A new kitchen is exciting, more insulation or a heat pump which is worse than the boiler it’s replacing is not. If I had that kind of money burning a hole in my pocket I’d much rather spend it on a kitchen and I expect 95% of the population would agree with me.

Maybe they don't care about the climate but if the mortgage requirement is to achieve EPC B or higher then fitting internal wall insulation or a £6500 granite kitchen worktop will likely not be their decision. 

Please explain your phrase "heat pump which is worse than the boiler". What are your measures?

Efficiency is a physical characteristic of the system, cost is something entirely different and value for money is something else again!

We can see what most people's perception of VfM is as evidenced by the crazy house price increases!

We need a fundamental change in mindset that supports investing in energy efficient infrastructure vice vanity projects.