Faulty Laminate Floor - Advice please?

brogan1m

Two years ago we had a Karnean laminate floor fitted to an existing concrete base. The supplier, A M Selly, checked it and sent us a written quote recommending that he should lay a damp-proof membrane (DPM) directly onto the floor and on top of that a floating floor consisting of underlay tiles from a company called Easilay, and then fit the Karndean laminate on top of that.

Not long afterwards, we started noticing marks on the floor corresponding to the underlay tile joints. and subsequently we notice ripples in the floor that have become steadily worse. We contacted the supplier who never came to inspect the floor but instead sent a representative form the underlay company, Easilay. 

We then received a letter from Selly telling us that they wanted to appoint a, "independent flooring inspector" to survey the floor and decide on the cause of the problem. The cost would be £500 plus VAT plus expenses. Selly would pay this if he concluded their work was faulty, Easilay would pay of the underlay was at fault, and we would pay if he decided the cause was our fault e.g. a flood causing damp to ingress. 

We refused this on the basis that we contracted with Selly, and Easilay was their subcontractor. Our claim is against Selly and we are not prepared to get involved in deciding whether them or their subcontractor is a fault. Also we are certainly not prepared to agree to pay for an inspector appointed by them who may or may not decide that we are at fault. I know for a fact that we have not mistreated the floor or had any flood or water ingress from the surface.

We are now at stalemate with Selly so I am at the point of taking out a claim against the company. I will go and speak to them one last time before filing the claim but any advice from people on this board would be greatly appreciated.   

macman

Selly are your contractor, and they are potentially liable, but they are perfectly entitled to subcontract their management of the claim to Easilay if they wish. If you are not happy with their choice of inspector, then you can negotiate with them to appoint your own, or choose your own without their agreement, but in this instance you will have to pay for the inspection regardless of the result, and then try to claim all your costs back, plus the expenses, via the small claims process. You do not have to accept their resolution route, you can choose your own-but the costs must be borne by you.

Bradden

Are they an approved Karndean fitter? If so take it up with Karndean. I'm not familiar with the underlay they used but when I had Karndean laid on concerte they levelled the floor and then laid directly on it.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

brogan1m said:

Not long afterwards, we started noticing marks on the floor corresponding to the underlay tile joints. and subsequently we notice ripples in the floor that have become steadily worse. We contacted the supplier who never came to inspect the floor but instead sent a representative form the underlay company, Easilay. 

We then received a letter from Selly telling us that they wanted to appoint a, "independent flooring inspector" to survey the floor and decide on the cause of the problem. The cost would be £500 plus VAT plus expenses. Selly would pay this if he concluded their work was faulty, Easilay would pay of the underlay was at fault, and we would pay if he decided the cause was our fault e.g. a flood causing damp to ingress. 

How long after the job was completed was it before you contacted the company?

Their request to inspect might not be unreasonable and only paying for the inspection if it confirms a fault isn't unreasonable either. Anyone can carry out the inspection, the better their qualification, the more accurate the report will be. 

The question really is whether the £600 fee for inspection is reasonable. If you can find someone else who is sufficiently qualified to perform the inspection at a better price, requesting this doesn't appear unreasonable to me.  

brogan1m

Re: Bradden

They are Karndean approved fitters. When they inspected the original concrete floor they gave us the choice of screeding or laying damp-proof membrane, then Easilay, then Karnean on top of that. We choose this option.

Re: macman

Selly want to appoint their own independent inspector. But want us to pay for him if he find us at fault. We're not prepared to do that on the basis that we have no idea how "independent" he is. Our stance on this is that they pay for him. If he finds that we're at fault, we would appoint our own inspector and then, if necessary, take it to court.

As far as we're concerned, we contracted with Selly: how they resolve things with their subcontractor is not our concern.

macman

Of course they'll expect you to pay for the inspection if you are at fault, how else would they avoid vexatious complaints? 
As I said, if you are not happy, appoint your own inspector. One party or the other has to pay for them, so the allegation of bias can be with either party.

pinkshoes

brogan1m said:

Re: Bradden

They are Karndean approved fitters. When they inspected the original concrete floor they gave us the choice of screeding or laying damp-proof membrane, then Easilay, then Karnean on top of that. We choose this option.

Re: macman

Selly want to appoint their own independent inspector. But want us to pay for him if he find us at fault. We're not prepared to do that on the basis that we have no idea how "independent" he is. Our stance on this is that they pay for him. If he finds that we're at fault, we would appoint our own inspector and then, if necessary, take it to court.

As far as we're concerned, we contracted with Selly: how they resolve things with their subcontractor is not our concern.

Well are you at fault? If not, then allow them to inspect. I cannot see how walking on a floor can ruin it, as Karndean is known for being a tough floor.

By refusing the inspection it is making it look like you have done something wrong to the floor. 

You contracted Selly to fit the entire floor so they are also responsible for their subcontractors who did the underlay etc... so if the fault is with the underlay it is also up to Selly to sort it out.

Grumpy_chap

brogan1m said:

Two years ago we had a Karnean laminate floor fitted to an existing concrete base. The supplier, A M Selly, checked it and sent us a written quote recommending that he should lay a damp-proof membrane (DPM) directly onto the floor and on top of that a floating floor consisting of underlay tiles from a company called Easilay, and then fit the Karndean laminate on top of that.

Not long afterwards, we started noticing marks on the floor corresponding to the underlay tile joints. and subsequently we notice ripples in the floor that have become steadily worse. We contacted the supplier who never came to inspect the floor but instead sent a representative form the underlay company, Easilay. 

We then received a letter from Selly telling us that they wanted to appoint a, "independent flooring inspector" to survey the floor and decide on the cause of the problem. The cost would be £500 plus VAT plus expenses. Selly would pay this if he concluded their work was faulty, Easilay would pay of the underlay was at fault, and we would pay if he decided the cause was our fault e.g. a flood causing damp to ingress. 

We refused this on the basis that we contracted with Selly, and Easilay was their subcontractor. Our claim is against Selly and we are not prepared to get involved in deciding whether them or their subcontractor is a fault. Also we are certainly not prepared to agree to pay for an inspector appointed by them who may or may not decide that we are at fault. I know for a fact that we have not mistreated the floor or had any flood or water ingress from the surface.

We are now at stalemate with Selly so I am at the point of taking out a claim against the company. I will go and speak to them one last time before filing the claim but any advice from people on this board would be greatly appreciated.   

We had a Karndean floor, but our fitter took a different approach to yours and did a full screed of the floor before laying the Karndean.  The outcome was still very disappointing.  We pursued all sorts of options with the contractor before giving up and simply getting carpet laid over the top, which is the only solution that we found anywhere near satisfactory.

Should you choose to follow the "independent flooring inspector" route, for a rate of £500, I'd be wanting to see the credentials of that inspector before agreeing the cost.

Unfortunately, the experience we had was so poor that we concluded that Karndean is nothing more than an over-priced but low-quality product and the only advice I'd give to anyone is to avoid it.  Obviously, that route is too late for the OP, so the only advice now is to lay a good quality underlay and good quality carpet to hide the Karndean.

Bradden

@Grumpy_chap .. that is a shame.. what issues did you have? As long as the floor is level karndean should look great.

Grumpy_chap

Bradden said:

@Grumpy_chap .. that is a shame.. what issues did you have? As long as the floor is level karndean should look great.

You'd think so given the cost.

We went to a flooring company, who laid a very specific special quality of super-smooth screed across everywhere over the already flat tiles - screed applied in two coats over two days to get the special finish that Karndean requires. The the Karndean was laid down on the new screed.  They had trouble fitting it at the edges because they were not capable of cutting the Karndean to match the walls (our fault because the walls were not built at perfect 90 degree corners - as if!) and then the Karndean was all rippled anyway.  When we complained, the company said "well that's down to the quality of the floor, it needed to be put right first", which we promptly pointed out they had been the ones to do that only to be met with the "not us Guv - it was the screeding company".  How the flooring company did not understand that they charged us for the whole job and they were responsible for their screeding sub-contractor, I do not know.  

In fact writing this, our situation was more like the OP's than I first realised.

Anyway, after enough arguing, we just got the carpet and it's great.