Should I pay?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

That's never going to happen.

Never say never.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36/made

Supply of service in cancellation period

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

(2) In the case of a service other than supply of water, gas, electricity or district heating, the consumer ceases to have the right to cancel a service contract under regulation 29(1) if the service has been fully performed, and performance of the service began—

(a)after a request by the consumer in accordance with paragraph (1), and

(b)with the acknowledgement that the consumer would lose that right once the contract had been fully performed by the trader.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (6) apply where a contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1) and a service has been supplied in the cancellation period.

(4) Where the service is supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1), the consumer must (subject to paragraph (6)) pay to the trader an amount—

(a)for the supply of the service for the period for which it is supplied, ending with the time when the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32(2), and

(b)which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

(5) The amount is to be calculated—

(a)on the basis of the total price agreed in the contract, or

(b)if the total price is excessive, on the basis of the market value of the service that has been supplied, calculated by comparing prices for equivalent services supplied by other traders.

(6) The consumer bears no cost for supply of the service, in full or in part, in the cancellation period, if—

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

It's all well and good posting this, however you can't expect a tradesperson to turn up, carry out the work and then say "Sorry, not going to pay you now as you didn't provide xyz in a durable form"

Presumably you mean the consumer can't expect a trader to turn up and not fulfil their legal obligations? 

If I found a tradesperson asleep whilst they should be working they'd be out the door with a boot in their behind. 

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

That's never going to happen.

Never say never.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36/made

Supply of service in cancellation period

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

(2) In the case of a service other than supply of water, gas, electricity or district heating, the consumer ceases to have the right to cancel a service contract under regulation 29(1) if the service has been fully performed, and performance of the service began—

(a)after a request by the consumer in accordance with paragraph (1), and

(b)with the acknowledgement that the consumer would lose that right once the contract had been fully performed by the trader.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (6) apply where a contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1) and a service has been supplied in the cancellation period.

(4) Where the service is supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1), the consumer must (subject to paragraph (6)) pay to the trader an amount—

(a)for the supply of the service for the period for which it is supplied, ending with the time when the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32(2), and

(b)which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

(5) The amount is to be calculated—

(a)on the basis of the total price agreed in the contract, or

(b)if the total price is excessive, on the basis of the market value of the service that has been supplied, calculated by comparing prices for equivalent services supplied by other traders.

(6) The consumer bears no cost for supply of the service, in full or in part, in the cancellation period, if—

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

It's all well and good posting this, however you can't expect a tradesperson to turn up, carry out the work and then say "Sorry, not going to pay you now as you didn't provide xyz in a durable form"

Presumably you mean the consumer can't expect a trader to turn up and not fulfil their legal obligations? 

If I found a tradesperson asleep whilst they should be working they'd be out the door with a boot in their behind. 

You believe it's acceptable for the consumer to get all the goods and labour for free?
So the tradesperson can return to the property and uninstall and keep all the items they purchased and fitted but will not receive payment for?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

That's never going to happen.

Never say never.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36/made

Supply of service in cancellation period

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

(2) In the case of a service other than supply of water, gas, electricity or district heating, the consumer ceases to have the right to cancel a service contract under regulation 29(1) if the service has been fully performed, and performance of the service began—

(a)after a request by the consumer in accordance with paragraph (1), and

(b)with the acknowledgement that the consumer would lose that right once the contract had been fully performed by the trader.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (6) apply where a contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1) and a service has been supplied in the cancellation period.

(4) Where the service is supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1), the consumer must (subject to paragraph (6)) pay to the trader an amount—

(a)for the supply of the service for the period for which it is supplied, ending with the time when the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32(2), and

(b)which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

(5) The amount is to be calculated—

(a)on the basis of the total price agreed in the contract, or

(b)if the total price is excessive, on the basis of the market value of the service that has been supplied, calculated by comparing prices for equivalent services supplied by other traders.

(6) The consumer bears no cost for supply of the service, in full or in part, in the cancellation period, if—

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

It's all well and good posting this, however you can't expect a tradesperson to turn up, carry out the work and then say "Sorry, not going to pay you now as you didn't provide xyz in a durable form"

Presumably you mean the consumer can't expect a trader to turn up and not fulfil their legal obligations? 

If I found a tradesperson asleep whilst they should be working they'd be out the door with a boot in their behind. 

You believe it's acceptable for the consumer to get all the goods and labour for free?
So the tradesperson can return to the property and uninstall and keep all the items they purchased and fitted but will not receive payment for?

But it isn't me, I didn't write the legislation  

The above refers to services, goods would still need to be paid for, or restored to the trader. 

This isn't much different to diminished value regarding goods, if the trader complies with the required info the consumer should suffer the cost of any diminished value, if the trader doesn't comply with the required information the consumer can be careless to the point the goods are worthless effectively at the trader's expense. 

waribai

Thanks. To be honest, I wouldn't feel good not paying for a service which albeit poor, ultimately I did receive. Also, they know where we live and I have a family here! I'm happy to take the 5% discount if/when they send me a revised invoice. However, it's good to know that if they refuse to send a written invoice for the revised amount, I can threaten them with this!

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

That's never going to happen.

Never say never.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36/made

Supply of service in cancellation period

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

(2) In the case of a service other than supply of water, gas, electricity or district heating, the consumer ceases to have the right to cancel a service contract under regulation 29(1) if the service has been fully performed, and performance of the service began—

(a)after a request by the consumer in accordance with paragraph (1), and

(b)with the acknowledgement that the consumer would lose that right once the contract had been fully performed by the trader.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (6) apply where a contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1) and a service has been supplied in the cancellation period.

(4) Where the service is supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1), the consumer must (subject to paragraph (6)) pay to the trader an amount—

(a)for the supply of the service for the period for which it is supplied, ending with the time when the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32(2), and

(b)which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

(5) The amount is to be calculated—

(a)on the basis of the total price agreed in the contract, or

(b)if the total price is excessive, on the basis of the market value of the service that has been supplied, calculated by comparing prices for equivalent services supplied by other traders.

(6) The consumer bears no cost for supply of the service, in full or in part, in the cancellation period, if—

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

It's all well and good posting this, however you can't expect a tradesperson to turn up, carry out the work and then say "Sorry, not going to pay you now as you didn't provide xyz in a durable form"

Presumably you mean the consumer can't expect a trader to turn up and not fulfil their legal obligations? 

If I found a tradesperson asleep whilst they should be working they'd be out the door with a boot in their behind. 

You believe it's acceptable for the consumer to get all the goods and labour for free?
So the tradesperson can return to the property and uninstall and keep all the items they purchased and fitted but will not receive payment for?

But it isn't me, I didn't write the legislation  

The above refers to services, goods would still need to be paid for, or restored to the trader. 

This isn't much different to diminished value regarding goods, if the trader complies with the required info the consumer should suffer the cost of any diminished value, if the trader doesn't comply with the required information the consumer can be careless to the point the goods are worthless effectively at the trader's expense. 

I think there is more to cutting and pasting chunks of the act though. A few months ago I got an electrican round to give me a quote to fit two outdoor floodlights supplied by me. He gave me the price and said 'I'm free now to do it if you want'. I couldn't even dream about turning around after he fitted them and saying 'Well i'm not going to pay for your services as you did not provide xyz in a durable medium'.

Hopefully I think most people would think the same.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

That's never going to happen.

Never say never.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36/made

Supply of service in cancellation period

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

(2) In the case of a service other than supply of water, gas, electricity or district heating, the consumer ceases to have the right to cancel a service contract under regulation 29(1) if the service has been fully performed, and performance of the service began—

(a)after a request by the consumer in accordance with paragraph (1), and

(b)with the acknowledgement that the consumer would lose that right once the contract had been fully performed by the trader.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (6) apply where a contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1) and a service has been supplied in the cancellation period.

(4) Where the service is supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1), the consumer must (subject to paragraph (6)) pay to the trader an amount—

(a)for the supply of the service for the period for which it is supplied, ending with the time when the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32(2), and

(b)which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

(5) The amount is to be calculated—

(a)on the basis of the total price agreed in the contract, or

(b)if the total price is excessive, on the basis of the market value of the service that has been supplied, calculated by comparing prices for equivalent services supplied by other traders.

(6) The consumer bears no cost for supply of the service, in full or in part, in the cancellation period, if—

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

It's all well and good posting this, however you can't expect a tradesperson to turn up, carry out the work and then say "Sorry, not going to pay you now as you didn't provide xyz in a durable form"

Presumably you mean the consumer can't expect a trader to turn up and not fulfil their legal obligations? 

If I found a tradesperson asleep whilst they should be working they'd be out the door with a boot in their behind. 

You believe it's acceptable for the consumer to get all the goods and labour for free?
So the tradesperson can return to the property and uninstall and keep all the items they purchased and fitted but will not receive payment for?

But it isn't me, I didn't write the legislation  

The above refers to services, goods would still need to be paid for, or restored to the trader. 

This isn't much different to diminished value regarding goods, if the trader complies with the required info the consumer should suffer the cost of any diminished value, if the trader doesn't comply with the required information the consumer can be careless to the point the goods are worthless effectively at the trader's expense. 

I think there is more to cutting and pasting chunks of the act though. A few months ago I got an electrican round to give me a quote to fit two outdoor floodlights supplied by me. He gave me the price and said 'I'm free now to do it if you want'. I couldn't even dream about turning around after he fitted them and saying 'Well i'm not going to pay for your services as you did not provide xyz in a durable medium'.

Hopefully I think most people would think the same.

Neither could I but the info is mostly generic, it should be a 2 minute job to give to the customer and in this case the company have given OP some info, just not the right info.  

If you have a decent tradesperson the average person is going to happily pay up for a job well done, the legislation is good support for those instances where things perhaps don't go so well.