Should I pay?

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

That's never going to happen.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

That's never going to happen.

Never say never.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36/made

Supply of service in cancellation period

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

(2) In the case of a service other than supply of water, gas, electricity or district heating, the consumer ceases to have the right to cancel a service contract under regulation 29(1) if the service has been fully performed, and performance of the service began—

(a)after a request by the consumer in accordance with paragraph (1), and

(b)with the acknowledgement that the consumer would lose that right once the contract had been fully performed by the trader.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (6) apply where a contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1) and a service has been supplied in the cancellation period.

(4) Where the service is supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1), the consumer must (subject to paragraph (6)) pay to the trader an amount—

(a)for the supply of the service for the period for which it is supplied, ending with the time when the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32(2), and

(b)which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

(5) The amount is to be calculated—

(a)on the basis of the total price agreed in the contract, or

(b)if the total price is excessive, on the basis of the market value of the service that has been supplied, calculated by comparing prices for equivalent services supplied by other traders.

(6) The consumer bears no cost for supply of the service, in full or in part, in the cancellation period, if—

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

waribai said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

Thanks. The conditions they are holding us to are the terms and conditions on their website and the acceptance of their emailed quote.

The info on their website doesn't count as it isn't durable, an exact copy of their terms from the email and anything else given would be helpful. 

Also need to know how you acquired their services.

Devil is in the detail, without the full details it's impossible to advise. 

waribai

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

waribai said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

Thanks. The conditions they are holding us to are the terms and conditions on their website and the acceptance of their emailed quote.

The info on their website doesn't count as it isn't durable, an exact copy of their terms from the email and anything else given would be helpful. 

Also need to know how you acquired their services.

Devil is in the detail, without the full details it's impossible to advise. 

Thanks. These are the only terms mentioned in the email:

Duration of works:   

·        Subject to Clause 10 of our Terms and Conditions of Business.

·        The job is estimated to take approximately 2-3 Days, but may take longer depending upon what transpires, including if unforeseen difficulties are encountered and/or if any additional work or variations are requested.

*Please be advised that the duration stated above is a rough guide and should the works finish earlier than this guide indicates the price will remain as quoted (Subject to extra's if requested or required)

·        the right to increase the cost of the price of the work.

·        The terms of payment are as set out below and are further subject to Clause 6 of our terms and conditions of business.

 

TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF PAYMENT:

1. 30% deposit payment is due at time of starting your project.

2. Remaining payment of 70% is due on the day of completion.

3. Payment can be made by card, bank transfer to our office or by cash to the team working on site.

4. All rates are inclusive of V.A.T. at the current rate of 20%.

5. We understand & will exercise our statutory right to claim interest & compensation for debt recovery costs under the late payment legislation if we are not paid according to the above credit terms.

waribai

They also sent the attached as a pdf. My wife's key concern has always been that they would add interest to any outstanding amount if we did not pay immediately. We found the company through a local forum recommendation and then emailed them to make a query.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Out of interest wat does Clause 7 on their website detail? 

You mentioned decorating and flooring, I'm assuming none of the work was urgent repairs or maintenance?

waribai

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Out of interest wat does Clause 7 on their website detail? 

You mentioned decorating and flooring, I'm assuming none of the work was urgent repairs or maintenance?

No, nothing was urgent. I don't think I mentioned clause 7 did I? That is just about cancellation.  Clause 6 and 10 I mentioned above state:


PAYMENT, PRICE AND EXTRAS

6.1. Payments are accepted in cash (up to £10,000 only), cheque, credit/debit card and/or bank transfer.

6.2. (Unless otherwise agreed or stated to the contrary in the quotation), a 30% deposit payment is due on the day of starting the project. The deposit payment is not refundable if the Client decides to cancel a project after any workers have arrived on site. The Company shall not be obliged to commence and/or
continue work at the Premises unless and until the deposit has been paid, and in this regard payment by cheque shall be deemed to be a conditional payment as stated above.

6.3 (Unless otherwise agreed or unless stated to the contrary in the quotation), the remaining payment of 70% plus the cost of any extra or additional work requested, or of any variations requested, shall be due on the date for the completion of the work. The Client should make payment before the workers leave the
Premises at the end of the project.

6.4. The Company reserves the right to charge simple interest upon any overdue sums, at the rate of 8% per annum, with interest to be computed upon a daily basis

6.5. All bank charges incurred due to a Client`s cheque being returned unpaid will be passed to the Client.

6.6 The Company reserves the right to stop work and/or cease to continue work and remove its workers from the Premises, if any payment due is wholly or partly unpaid and/or continues to remain unpaid.

6.7 The Company reserves the right to stop work and/or to cease to continue work and to remove its workers from the Premises, in the event that the Client is subject to any insolvency procedure, (to include
but not be limited to the appointment of an administrator and/or an administrative receiver, the service of a statutory demand, the presentation of a bankruptcy and/or winding up petition. and the proposing of an arrangement general creditors.) The Company shall also be entitled in such circumstances by service of
notice in wiring upon the Client and/or upon a relevant insolvency office holder, to terminate the Contract.

6.8. The Company reserves the right to amend the price of the Contract by such amount as may be just and equitable if the price has been computed upon a misrepresentation made by or on behalf of the Client.

6.9 The Client will pay a reasonable price for any extra work and/or for any variation to the work outside the scope of the Contract, which the Company and/or the workers are asked to undertake at the Premises by the Client or by any director,
officer or manager of the Client or other person representing the Client at the Premises.



10 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE

10.1. Any complaints should be made or confirmed to the Company and/or the Booking Agent in writing.

10.2. The Booking Agent and/or the Company will investigate any complaint and attempt to resolve the matter to the satisfaction of the Client.

10.3. The Client agrees to allow the Company to return to site and to remedy at the Company’s own cost and expense any defects or other remedial work which the Client may advise to the Company and/or the Booking Agent, and which the Company decides to undertake (which will be without any acceptance any legal responsibility on its part).

waribai

Ok, yes they mention Clause 7. This states:

CONSUMER CONTRACTS (INFORMATION, CANCELLATION AND ADDITIONAL CHARGES) REGULATIONS 2013.

7.1 Where the regulations apply, notice of statutory cancellation rights are set out below;-

Right to cancel

If the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 apply to the relevant contract between yourself and the Company, you will have the right to cancel the contract within a
relevant 14 day period without giving any reason.

The cancellation period will expire after 14 days from the date of the Contract or from the date you first receive this notice, which ever shall be the latter.

To exercise the right to cancel, you must inform the Booking Agent and/or the Company of your decision to cancel the Contract by a clear statement (e.g. a letter sent by post, fax or e-mail). You may use the below
model cancellation form, but it is not obligatory.

To meet the cancellation deadline, it is sufficient for you to send your communication concerning your exercise of the right to cancel before the cancellation period has expired.

Effects of cancellation

If you cancel this contract, you will receive a refund of all payments received from you, (except in respect of the value of any work and out of pocket expenses which has been carried out and/or incurred at your request,
and which you will remain responsible to pay for).

The refund will be made without undue delay, and not later than 14 days after the day on which we are informed about your decision to cancel this contract.

You will receive the refund using the same means of payment as you used for the initial transaction, unless you have expressly agreed otherwise; in any event, you will not incur any costs as a result of the
reimbursement.

Model cancellation form addressed to the Booking Agent which you may wish to use to cancel the contract within the cancellation period is set out below;-

“Toxxxxx

I/We [*] herby give notice that I/We [*] cancel my/our [*] contract for the supply of the work at the below
site address via your company…………………………………………. [*],
Name of consumer(s),……………………………………….
Address of consumer(s),……………………………………………………………………..
Site Address………………………………………………..
Contact telephone number (optional)………………………………

Signature of consumer(s) (only if this form is notified on paper),……………………………………………….
Date……………………………………………………………………..”

[*] Delete as appropriate.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

waribai said:

Ok, yes they mention Clause 7. This states:

CONSUMER CONTRACTS (INFORMATION, CANCELLATION AND ADDITIONAL CHARGES) REGULATIONS 2013.

7.1 Where the regulations apply, notice of statutory cancellation rights are set out below;-

Right to cancel

If the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 apply to the relevant contract between yourself and the Company, you will have the right to cancel the contract within a
relevant 14 day period without giving any reason.

The cancellation period will expire after 14 days from the date of the Contract or from the date you first receive this notice, which ever shall be the latter.

To exercise the right to cancel, you must inform the Booking Agent and/or the Company of your decision to cancel the Contract by a clear statement (e.g. a letter sent by post, fax or e-mail). You may use the below
model cancellation form, but it is not obligatory.

To meet the cancellation deadline, it is sufficient for you to send your communication concerning your exercise of the right to cancel before the cancellation period has expired.

Effects of cancellation

If you cancel this contract, you will receive a refund of all payments received from you, (except in respect of the value of any work and out of pocket expenses which has been carried out and/or incurred at your request,
and which you will remain responsible to pay for).

The refund will be made without undue delay, and not later than 14 days after the day on which we are informed about your decision to cancel this contract.

You will receive the refund using the same means of payment as you used for the initial transaction, unless you have expressly agreed otherwise; in any event, you will not incur any costs as a result of the
reimbursement.

Model cancellation form addressed to the Booking Agent which you may wish to use to cancel the contract within the cancellation period is set out below;-

“Toxxxxx

I/We [*] herby give notice that I/We [*] cancel my/our [*] contract for the supply of the work at the below
site address via your company…………………………………………. [*],
Name of consumer(s),……………………………………….
Address of consumer(s),……………………………………………………………………..
Site Address………………………………………………..
Contact telephone number (optional)………………………………

Signature of consumer(s) (only if this form is notified on paper),……………………………………………….
Date……………………………………………………………………..”

[*] Delete as appropriate.

And you didn't get this in any medium other than being referred to the website? 

Regardless their cancellation period is 1 day short so as far as I can see you have 1 year and 14 days to cancel your contract (or 14 days from the day after they provide the correct information) and you aren't obligated to pay. 

It won't go down well with company. 

The interesting part is the PDF states the contract is exempt from the right to cancel and to refer to clause 7 but the clause 7 doesn't mention any exemptions (assuming the above is in full).

If you wish to try and cancel you should simply advise them you are cancelling your contract by following their instructions for doing so in clause 7, they will probably say you can't and then you'd have to give them the below along with the legislation in my previous post. 

They may have an ace up their sleeve or I may be missing something, this is just my take on the situation and shouldn't be viewed as legal advice  


www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/10/made

10.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by an off-premises contract, the trader—

(a)must give the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner, and

(b)if a right to cancel exists, must give the consumer a cancellation form as set out in part B of Schedule 3.

(2) The information and any cancellation form must be given on paper or, if the consumer agrees, on another durable medium and must be legible.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/30/made

Normal cancellation period

30.—(1) The cancellation period ends as follows, unless regulation 31 applies.

(2) If the contract is—

(a)a service contract, or

(b)a contract for the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium,

the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the contract is entered into.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/31/made

Cancellation period extended for breach of information requirement

31.—(1) This regulation applies if the trader does not provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

(2) If the trader provides the consumer with that information in the period of 12 months beginning with the first day of the 14 days mentioned in regulation 30(2) to (6), but otherwise in accordance with Part 2, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the consumer receives the information.

(3) Otherwise the cancellation period ends at the end of 12 months after the day on which it would have ended under regulation 30.

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Depending upon the answers to my previous questions you may not be obligated o pay anything either way. 

That's never going to happen.

Never say never.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36/made

Supply of service in cancellation period

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

(2) In the case of a service other than supply of water, gas, electricity or district heating, the consumer ceases to have the right to cancel a service contract under regulation 29(1) if the service has been fully performed, and performance of the service began—

(a)after a request by the consumer in accordance with paragraph (1), and

(b)with the acknowledgement that the consumer would lose that right once the contract had been fully performed by the trader.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (6) apply where a contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1) and a service has been supplied in the cancellation period.

(4) Where the service is supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1), the consumer must (subject to paragraph (6)) pay to the trader an amount—

(a)for the supply of the service for the period for which it is supplied, ending with the time when the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32(2), and

(b)which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

(5) The amount is to be calculated—

(a)on the basis of the total price agreed in the contract, or

(b)if the total price is excessive, on the basis of the market value of the service that has been supplied, calculated by comparing prices for equivalent services supplied by other traders.

(6) The consumer bears no cost for supply of the service, in full or in part, in the cancellation period, if—

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

It's all well and good posting this, however you can't expect a tradesperson to turn up, carry out the work and then say "Sorry, not going to pay you now as you didn't provide xyz in a durable form"