Defence letter - advice please - update

Hertsinaction

Thank you. Just been back to the site again, lots of new photos taken, incredible the number of new signs around the road. Wonder if they have lost some other cases?

How long do they normally take to send forms? MCOL not updated yet.

Redx

Hertsinaction said:

Thank you. Just been back to the site again, lots of new photos taken, incredible the number of new signs around the road. Wonder if they have lost some other cases?

How long do they normally take to send forms? MCOL not updated yet.

No way of knowing , but typically 6 to 8 weeks , keep checking MCOL every few days

Hertsinaction

Just received my ‘Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track’ letter, I take it I should just say no to this.

KeithP

Hertsinaction said:

Just received my ‘Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track’ letter, I take it I should just say no to this.

Why would you want to say no to that?

Le_Kirk

Hertsinaction said:

Just received my ‘Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track’ letter, I take it I should just say no to this.

Where else would you want it to go?  Did you also receive the N180?  This is all as expected and is explained in the NEWBIE sticky Know What Happens and When: -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5546325/court-claim-procedure-updated-october-2016/p1

Hertsinaction

Sorry probably explained it wrong, it was the N180. I have followed advice in sticky for the N180 and will be sending it off. Although I left my telephone number and email off the copy to the solicitors.

I have nearly completed my defence statement with numerous photo exhibits. Is it best to put a retracted copy here for perusal by others  (not photos) or would someone like to see it personally. Even if redacted it will be obvious where it is probably.

Le_Kirk

Hertsinaction said:

1) ... it was the N180. I have followed advice in sticky for the N180 and will be sending it off. Although I left my telephone number and email off the copy to the solicitors.

2) I have nearly completed my defence statement with numerous photo exhibits. Is it best to put a retracted copy here for perusal by others  (not photos) or would someone like to see it personally. Even if redacted it will be obvious where it is probably.

1) Correct thing to do.
2) You must have submitted a defence already else you wouldn't be at N180 stage.  Did you mean Witness Statement?  If you did, then yes you can post it on forum for critique.

Hertsinaction

Yes I meant statement. Ok thank you, I will when complete.

Hertsinaction

I thought I had already posted this but it didn't save as was too long so have created a few entries

My main argument is detailed in the part completed witness statement below. Sorry it is so long but all the points raised are relevant to the case.

1.       I am xxx and am the defendant against whom this claim is made. The facts below are true to the best of my belief and my account has been prepared based upon my own knowledge.

2.       In my statement I shall refer to exhibits xx/1 to xx/30 inclusive, which refer to photographic and written evidence, which I produce as evidence, forming part of the defence.. Each exhibit is identified by a unique number. These exhibits are relevant to this case and proves that on the 15th January 2016 there were insufficient and unclear signage. The photographs were taken on the 21st March 2021 and the 8th December 2021.

 Sequence of events and signage.

 3.       Firstly, it should be noted that my statement refers to 3 visits to xx, xx, the first being the date of the original claim xx 2016, the 21st March 2021 and lastly the 8th December 2021. You will also note the 3 different layouts of signage from each visit. All these visits are relevant to this case as they show that UKPC knew there were insufficient signage warning drivers of the restrictions.

 4.       The approach to this private land (roadway) continues on immediately as part of the same road which starts from xx and leads into a free public car park at is end. See exhibit xx/1 which shows an overhead view of the roadway and layout of the land. I  have

 5.       On the day in question, I drove along the x into the free public car park at the end. Unfortunately, like on many occasions I visited previously, the car park was full, therefore I drove out of the car park and parked on the left hand side of xx, as I had done on numerous occasions previously.

 6.       I was and have always, been aware of 3 ‘No unauthorised parking’ signs, see Exhibit x/2. This a picture of the sign referred to in point 6(iii) below. It was my understanding from the positioning of these 3 signs that parking was not permitted in 3 specific areas. It had never occurred to me in years of visiting this site, that the land referred to on the signs, meant the roadway.  The signs refer to the ‘land being private property’. The signs were placed in the following areas and follow the in ward route to the car park.

 (i)                 Exhibit xx/3 shows gates leading into the Scout premises car park, on the right as you drive along the road. The photo, taken on the 21st March 2021, shows the un gated entrance with no sign displayed. On the date in question and previous visits a ‘No unauthorised parking’ sign was fitted to this gate, it appears to have now been removed. I had always understood this sign to mean that no unauthorised parking was allowed within the scout car park, as the sign was on their gate.

(ii)               Exhibit x/4 and x/5 shows a second ‘No unauthorised parking’ sign erected on a building wall, on the left side as you drive towards the car park. It is placed at the entrance to roadway leading into an industrial area. It is directly adjacent to the entrance to this roadway which also has a completely different coloured road surface to the so called ‘private land’ in question. I have always understood this sign to mean that there was no parking along that roadway to the industrial area as it is actually above that roadway not the roadway in question. These photographs were taken on the 21st March 2021 but the sign is in the same position as the date in question.

 (iii)             Exhibit x/6 show the third ‘No unauthorised parking’ sign fitted to a gate to the entrance to a second industrial area, on the right side. This photograph was taken on 21st March 2021. Exhibits x/7 and x/8, taken on the 8th December 2021, show the gates open and clearly shows the sign on the open gate as it was on the day in question. When open, this sign is not in eye line of any driver, when driving along the road to the car park.

As with the other 2 signs discussed in (i) and (II) above, it intimates that no parking is allowed within the industrial area. There is no mention of the road being private, just the property, which is very misleading and because of its location on the gate, I assumed that the property beyond the gate was private, not the roadway in question.

7.          I was not aware of any other signs, apart from the 3 mentioned above, anywhere

   else along this road. I left my car in that parked position whilst I went for my usual 

   dog walk and on returning found a parking charge affixed to my windscreen. I was

   completely surprised and confused as to why I had received such a charge, having parked       

   here on many occasions previously.

                    

8.           I then noticed a ‘No unauthorised parking’ sign directly adjacent to my vehicle, fitted                      

           to the fencing. I do not recall ever seeing this sign before, let alone seeing it on the  

           day in question. I am positive it was not there when I parked, Due to my previous

           occupation, I am very observant. Exhibit x/9, a photograph taken on the 21st March

          2021, shows the same fence with no sign fitted to it. It begs the question as to how the

          sign appeared on the date in question.

            

                 With this in mind, I would like to produce exhibit x/10. This is a copy of a news article

                 Published in the Mailonline, part of the Daily Mail group, dated 10th September 2015. In

                 the article, it discusses employees of xx being put under severe pressure to ticket 

                 vehicles in return for higher pay and finds that photographs were tampered with as                                 

                 tickets were issued. xx admitted ‘errors’ were made and had to return a substantial                    

                 amount of money to victims. Both the British Parking Association and City of London

                Nation Fraud office investigated the company. AWAITING RESULTS NOTIFICATION

           On returning to the scene on the 8th December  2021, I noticed there were now 3 signs

          placed along that fencing where I was parked, see Exhibit X/11. It really does beg the         

          question as to how that sign appeared on the fence on the day in question.  Please refer

          to point 20 below for further comments on these signs.

      9.           I then decided to check that no other signs were present. I walked towards 

    the car park and on my right was a lamppost, see exhibit X/12 and X/13 also

    taken on the 21st March 2021. Approximately 12 foot up the lamppost, I noticed a ‘No    

    Unauthorised Parking’ sign was fitted. It could not be clearly seen, as the foliage/trees,    

    which are visible in these photographs, had completely covered the sign. As can be seen

    in this photo the foliage has now been cut back making the sign visible, however, it is

    well above eye level and could easily have been missed.  Even if the sign could be seen,

    the font is so small at that high level, I could not read it.

 10.       I walked away from the car park seeing no other signs until I noticed a  lamp post   

    situated on public land on the tow path below the level of the bridge. See Exhibit

                  X/14 (taken on the 21st March 2021). As can be seen there is a No Unauthorised

                  Parking sign towards the top of the lamp post. This lamp post is not even on the land in

    question, why it is fitted on public land and public property is a mystery. However,

    on the day in question this sign was actually facing away from the roadway towards 

    the direction of the towpath i.e. around to the left. It could not be seen from

    the roadway and I certainly did not see it on the day in question or on previous

    visits. Following my visit on the 8th December 2021 the lamp post and sign have

    been removed, see exhibit X/15 and X/16.

          

11.       I continued down the elevated section of the bridge and then noticed a yellow    

    sign with black writing, fitted on a wall on the right, as you drive towards the car

    park. Exhibit X/17, shows the view you get of the sign as you drive on

    to the ‘private property’ and exhibit X/18 shows the view as you drive away from the 

    car park. As can be seen, the sign is flush to the wall, not in full view of drivers and is

    impossible to see or read unless you stop and block the roadway. However, I have

    never noticed this sign before and as I have said previously, I driven along that stretch

    of road many times. It was not in a prominent and easily visible place. This sign is further

    discussed in point  19(2).

 

12.       I left the scene. Some time later I received correspondence demanding payment for the 

    Parking charge issued.

 

        

 

 

 

Hertsinaction

13.       On the 24th March 2016, I wrote a letter to X, which I produce as exhibit X/19, 

    requesting details of the contract made between the land owner and UKPC.  

    Proof of the date the letter was written is shown in photograph exhibit DM/X, taken

    off my computer. This shows the letter was saved on the 24th March 2016 at 2247

    hours and has not been edited in any way since that date. I can produce the computer as

    an exhibit if required . I posted this letter to X the following day and did not receive

    any reply. I sent the letter a second time approximately a month later adding in my own

    hand writing at the head of the letter, ‘2nd request’.  Again, I received no response. This

    begs the question as to whether any signed contract was in fact in place at the time.

    14.       Some time later, the dates of which I am unable to recall, I received a letter from a

    debt collecting agency. I responded by ringing them, informing them that I would be

    defending the claim and not to send any more letters demanding payment. For

    whatever reason, they continued to send letters. Because I had already contacted them,

    I did not respond to the later demand letters. The letters kept coming, but eventually

    stopped.

 15.       I sold the vehicle in question in November 2016 and in 2018 moved home to my current

    address. Photographs were taken at the time by myself and included the 2 signs to the

   entrances of both industrial areas, the scout car park, the yellow sign and the sign on the

   tow path. Unfortunately, during my move the photographs and correspondence received

   at my previous address, were lost

   16.       On 15th March 2021, I received a ’Notice of Debt Recovery’ letter from dcblegal for the

    unpaid parking charge in the sum of £160. On the 19th March at 1238hrs, I phoned the

    company and spoke with a man called X. I explained that I had already contacted

    the company many years ago and I was defending the parking charge. I explained that I

   did not want any further letters to be sent. This request was ignored, on the 6th April, I

   received yet another demand for £160, on the 4TH May a final notice of debt recovery, on

   21st July, a Notice of intended legal action, on 27th August, a letter of claim.

 17.     As stated earlier in my statement, following receipt of the letter from dcbl on the 15th

  March 2021, I returned to the location on the 21st March 2021 and took more   

  photographs, some of which have already been exhibited. Additional photographs were 

  also taken on this date, which are relevant to my defence which I admit as evidence.

 a.       Exhibit x/21 shows a ‘No Unauthorised  parking’ sign situated on metal railing half way across the bridge on the left side. This sign was NOT in situ at the time of this incident.

b.      I also noticed a sign fitted to the side wall of a building on the left as you drive towards 

       the car park, see exhibit x/22. I do not recall ever seeing this sign on previous visits 

       and do not recall seeing it on the day in question.

 18.   As stated, I revisited the scene on the 8th December 2021 following notification of proceeding being taken against me.

 19.   The following points are particularly relevant, as it shows xx must have known that they had insufficient signage and what signage there was did not make it clear as to what land was actually ‘private’. It should be noted how ‘No Unauthorised Parking’ signs have increased significantly in number, including a brand new ‘No Roadway Parking’ sign, as detailed below.  I took the additional photographs, on the 8th December 2021 and produce them as further exhibits.

 20.       The yellow sign, discussed in point 11 above, has now been moved to the left side of the road and attached to the metal railings on left side of the incline to the bridge, see Exhibit x/23 and x/24. It still is not in ‘head on’ view to drivers but sited adjacent to the road. It can also be seen that a second sign head lining ‘No Roadway Parking’ is displayed immediately to the right of it. See exhibits x/25 and x/26 for a close up view of these 2 signs. It is interesting to now see that the word ‘ROADWAY’ has been used in this new sign, this word has never been used in any other sign up until now, but makes clear that parking on the roadway is not allowed. I still question its positioning as it is not in full ‘head on’ view of drivers. This is quite a busy roadway and many large vans and lorries use it, you would not want to taking your eyes off the road whilst driving.

1. It can be easily seen the difference in font size between the 2 signs. I measured the yellow sign font, which is as relevant now as it was in 2016, as it is the same sign used on the date in question. I noted the letters were only 2.5cm in height, very small and dangerous to read whilst driving along a narrow, busy roadway.

 2.       As discussed earlier in point 11, Exhibit xx/11 shows the part of the roadway where I was parked on the 15th January 2016. It can clearly be seen on these recent photographs, that even since the 21st March 2021, 3 ‘No Unauthorised Parking’ signs have been fitted at intervals, along the fencing, covering the length of that part of the roadway.

 3.        The 2 exhibits, x/27 and x/28 show that there are no signs erected at the exit to the car park indicating the land is private being driven onto is in fact private. This is particularly relevant to the 15th January 2016, as I could not park in the car park, due it being full. This is a common occurrance, as seen in exhibit x/29 and x/30, taken on the 21st March 2021, where the car park was full and cars were parked along the length of this ‘private land’. It is obvious even then, signage was insufficient to warn drivers as to the restrictions in place. A clear sign at this location would be beneficial to drivers.

I copy and pasted this here, but the original is written in Times Roman in font 12.

Comments would be welcome,thanks